Andrew Henderson on Becoming a Global Citizen to Grow Your Wealth and Freedom – EP 55

November 10, 2021

Interview with Andrew Henderson

Andrew Henderson on Become a Global Citizen to Grow Your Wealth and Freedom

Today, I’m speaking with Andrew Henderson, the world’s most sought-after expert on offshore tax planning, second passports, and global citizenship.

As the Founder of Nomad Capitalist, he helps successful entrepreneurs and investors legally reduce their tax bill, create a Plan B, and grow their wealth globally.

In this conversation, we talk all about why geography is no longer a limitation for investors who are willing to follow Andrew’s advice to “go where you’re treated best.”

What does that mean exactly?

Well, it’s not only about reducing your taxes. While that’s a part of it, it’s also about choosing how you spend your hard-earned money, mitigating risks, and creating a backup plan that gives you and your family peace of mind. It’s about diversifying, optimizing, and taking control over all aspects of your life, so you can experience true freedom. Don’t worry, we dive deeper into all of this during our conversation.

And to be clear, becoming a global citizen doesn’t necessarily mean you have to live abroad. While it’s certainly an option with many benefits, Andrew’s strategies can help you take advantage of all the great things that are happening in the countries around you—regardless of where you decide to live.

So, if you want to keep more of your own money, become a citizen of the world, and experience true freedom, don’t miss my conversation with Andrew Henderson!

Featured on This Episode: Andrew Henderson

✅ What he does: Andrew Henderson is an entrepreneur, author, YouTuber, blogger, and Owner of Nomad Capitalist, an offshore consulting firm where he shares his knowledge in legal tax-reduction, global citizenship, and geo-arbitrage.

💬 Words of wisdom: After over decade of research and experimentation, I’m down to a 1% tax rate. I have multiple second citizenships (and, recently, I went through the process of renouncing my US citizenship). I have the freedom to invest in what I want, where I want. My personal banking is secure. My business banking is secure. I travel as often as I want. I am living the life I could only dream of 15 years ago. I can always go where I’m treated best.

🔎 Where to find Andrew Henderson: YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn

Key Takeaways with Andrew Henderson

Diversify your wealth by “planting flags” in different countries.
Go where you’re treated best—and it won’t always be your home country.
The psychological reasons most people are too afraid to move abroad.
The goal and desire to have personal freedom and choice.
What is Civil asset forfeiture?
Why you need a Plan B residency more than ever.
The benefits of owning real estate in foreign countries.
Some of the best countries for residency and citizenship.
Thoughts around cryptocurrency.
The EKG Formula—enhance your freedom, keep more of your wealth, and grow what you have
Solutions for those who choose to live in their home country.
How to get citizenship for different countries.

Andrew Henderson Clip | Enhance Your Freedom and Grow Your Wealth

Episode Highlights

Why pay such high tax?

“…a lot of people are moving to where you’re in, Austin, Texas from California because they’re saying, too many regulations, too many demands, too little freedom, taxes are going through the roof. And now, California wants to make it even worse. And I say, well, listen, if you’re already moving up,if you’re already moving, you’re going to Texas. One of the reasons people say they can’t move overseas is, oh, the kids have to change schools, but the kids are going to change schools going to Texas. And now, one in nine Americans apparently is homeschooling because they’ve seen in front of their very eyes just how bad the schooling is that you get during this pandemic, and kids were learning from home.” – Andrew Henderson

Go where you’re treated best

“Well, it’s very unfair. And you’ve seen that they come and they take the life savings of someone who owns a burrito shop because they deposit too much cash. Now, look at the law they want to pass. They can never do their own dirty work, by the way. So, they have taxes that are going nowhere but up. And some small business owners don’t report all their income. Now, I always report my income and I suggest people follow the law. And if they don’t like the laws, they should go where they’re just treated best.” – Andrew Henderson

Learn what your options are

“Listen, who knows what could happen? I want an insurance policy, second citizenship. I have no plans to leave the US, at least for now. Or maybe I’ll travel around, but Iwant to keep my citizenship, get me a second passport so I have options.” – Andrew Henderson

Why living in Western society isn’t the best

“So, my philosophy on this is, if you’re a successful person, entrepreneur, or investor, it is open season for you in many Western countries. They don’t want you. Look at the way they talk about you in the media. Look at how the politicians talk about you. Go to Berlin, the people are saying I’m paying rent to you; therefore, I should own your house,and you should be kicked out and bankrupted. This is the way the Western world is going. They Don’t care about you. And so, I at least want to have some properties in different places” – Andrew Henderson

Andrew Henderson Tweetables

“Go where you’re treated best. And where you’re treated best, may not be your home country.” – Andrew Henderson Click To Tweet “The idea is basically enhancing your freedom, keeping more of your wealth, and growing what you have. And so, freedom is important.” – Andrew Henderson Click To Tweet

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Read the Full Transcript with Andrew Henderson

Justin Donald: Alright. Well, Andrew, it is great to have you on the show. As a big fan of yours from a distance, it has been really fun watching you as you’ve evolved personally, as your brand has evolved. Obviously, being in a space where I also have a brand that I’m thinking about, it’s really fun watching people and watching the organic growth and just the things that kind of happen on their own, without you, it’s kind of like it gets on autopilot. And so, you’ve got this really cool brand. I’d love to have our audience hear more about it.

Andrew Henderson: It’s good to be with you. I hear that we have some friends who are down at Nomad Capitalist Live. We put on a live event. We had the former president of where I’m at now, Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili. We had Robert Kiyosaki, I know you’re a fan of.

Justin Donald: Oh yeah.

Andrew Henderson: And it was a great time. And Robert was just tremendous, by the way. Everybody was talking with Robert, and it was really a great time, but glad to be with you.

Justin Donald: That’s awesome. And just to clarify, a lot of people don’t know that there is a country named Georgia, right?

Andrew Henderson: Yeah.

Justin Donald: There’s, of course, the state in the US, and I think most people in the US, hopefully, they know that state, but I think most people in the world, specifically the US, have no clue that there’s a country called Georgia. And this country, by the way, is very friendly to entrepreneurs, has a very strong banking infrastructure. There’s just a lot of pros to it. And so, I’d love to know why you’re there. Why did you pick Georgia for the time being?

Andrew Henderson: Well, I’ve spent many years of my life now, going in about 14 years now, studying, researching, and doing basically what we call planting flags. This is something that Doug Casey, who also spoke at our event, talked about and started talking about in the late 70s, the idea that you need to be diversified. If you have everything in one basket, whether it’s yourself, your assets, your tax liabilities, I mean, you are subject to whatever the government decides to do. And what I’ve practiced in my life is having different homes around the world. So, I’m here in one of my homes getting some stuff done, getting with a team, a small part of our team here.

We have personal connections here. I have a business to do here. And so, a number of years ago, eight years ago, I came here, realized the potential. It was a place that was being advertised on television as a place, come and invest. Normally, I see the government saying come and invest. What do they do? Well, the president originally, Mikheil Saakashvili, took this and said we had 21 major taxes. We’re going to slash it to five or six. We’re going to flatten them. We’re going to make it so you have to vote in tax increases. Politicians can’t do it.

And it became very friendly. And by the way, income that you make outside of the country is generally not taxable as well. And oh, by the way, if you’re a freelancer and you’re working remotely and you want to work here, you can pay 1% tax up to low six figures on your salary. You can also come here on a tourist visa, 360 days a year. And so, for me, this is the kind of country that I’m looking for. No country is perfect, that party’s no longer in power.

And so, things change, but I think that the core tenets of what makes Georgia very attractive are very positive. I don’t know if I want to spend my full time here, but I really appreciate the opportunity to. And by the way, if you’re starting a business, if you’re starting an investment portfolio, if you’re doing something new, if you’re very, very affordably with great organic food, amazing wines, it’s really a great place.

Justin Donald: That’s awesome. I’ve got some friends that have spent some time there, and I’m part of another investment group, where really, there are people located all around the globe, and many of them, at any given moment, are in Georgia. I’ve just heard the greatest thing that’s on my list. I definitely want to get there. I love that Doug Casey spoke at one of your events because he is a brilliant mind, and I love his books. I’m actually finishing the third of his Higher Ground series, Assassin, and I love that he can take what’s going on. He can write it like fiction. So, it feels very much like a story, but he’s taking narratives that are really happening and kind of fictionalizing the feel of it for the flow. And I just love kind of reading between the lines with him because he has just such a great way to capture an audience, such a great way to tell a story, but a lot of the story you’re getting is what is happening in our world today.

Andrew Henderson: Well, this is what I’ve heard from people. So many folks who we work with on a private basis, I never would have been calling you five years ago, ten years ago. Our motto here is go where you’re treated best. Those are the five magic words. Those were spoken to me by my father in the mid or late 90s when we were talking about what I should do. I was a young person interested in becoming an entrepreneur at a very, very young age. And he said, “Listen, the writing is on the wall in this country.” He was a big fan of books like The Fourth Turning. He said, “This may not be the best place for you to be, whether it’s this city for sure, Cleveland, Ohio in the United States, I mean, not probably the best place.” They’re having a little bit of a resurgence, Ohio, but not really a place where businesses are flocking to. So, the city, the state, maybe not the country, even he said. I mean, there may be a better place, you should go where you’re treated best.

And what I’ve discovered is there are so many opportunities in places that, as you said, like Georgia, no one’s even heard of. Now, Georgia is a piece of the puzzle. I don’t believe in moving everything from the US to Georgia. You want to pick from the buffet. What does every country have to offer that’s different? Treat it like you would treat any business in your life where you’re going to take one of each and you’re going to take the best. And so, a lot of people now are realizing what I’ve been talking about in my family for almost a quarter of a century, which is your government doesn’t care about you.

You look at what’s happening in Afghanistan, the US, the UK, others, they’re leaving people behind. That’s not a lot of people, but I mean, if you’re a US citizen and you didn’t get on the plane, do you feel that citizenship helped you? It’s a much different view that people told me when I gave up my US citizenship. And then what? Are the helicopters going to come in and save you from Vietnam? Well, they’re not. This whole 18 months of the pandemic, I mean, governments have taken a lot of your freedoms. They’ve taken a lot of liberties. A lot of people have different opinions, but people have really, I think, woken up to what’s happening. And no, now they want to raise your taxes.

Now, in places like Berlin, they want to take your apartments, your type of investment. They want to take your apartments if you have too many apartments. I mean, it’s unbelievable. So, I think people are really seeing that what I’ve been talking about publicly as Noman Capitalist, I’m thinking about before that is really happening. And I think Doug has been talking about it even longer than I have.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And it’s great to get a good perspective where you listen to different people’s voices, no matter where you stand on things. It’s just good to hear other voices, other perspectives to make sure that you are truly investigating the truth. And so, my brother served in Afghanistan with the Army. He was there for a good amount of time. And he said specifically that every time their tour was supposed to end and it got extended, he said he felt like he was wondering, are they really going to come back for us? I think they are. Emotionally, I feel like they’re not. And this is years ago. This is not right now.

And so, he was having those feelings of being left behind while serving his country, especially in one of his tours where it was extended. His time there was extended three or four times. And he’s like, are they extending it because they don’t have the ability to get us out? Are they extending it because there’s a mistake? Are they extending it because of the loss of funding, like what’s going on here? And that would be a scary place to be, but I really like what you had to say, which is go where you’re treated best. And where you’re treated best may not be your home country. Maybe it is, maybe it’s not, but it’s worth considering that these lines that are drawn in the sand or on the ground are really just imaginary lines.

Even in the US, like you cross a river and now you’re in another state, and there’s a line that is drawn on a map and there are coordinates to it and it’s right down the middle of the river. So, what makes that so much different than the other side? Well, there are laws, there are some governing bodies, but it’s just kind of imaginary in so many ways. And I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

Andrew Henderson: I grew up around this. I remember when I was about 13 years old, we moved within the same city, but the suburb, the near suburb that we were living in became more difficult to deal with. There were some issues. We wanted to get away from it so we moved a little bit further out. We literally moved, the US, they have counties. There are cities, and then there’s the larger county within a state. We literally moved. The backyard was a whole different county. The county that we were leaving with the crazy high property taxes and lots of regulations and demands, you threw a tennis ball at the back door of the new house, you would land in the old county. And so, we went across this line and suddenly, the costs dropped by two-thirds. The regulations went down. You literally throw a tennis ball at the back door.

When I was older, I lived in Arizona. And my first business, I was in the broadcasting business, I had a very niche business that did pretty well. And I would drive in my early years of that business from Arizona where I lived over to Southern California. And you’d cross that imaginary line in the sand and you’d think, what the hell is living in this part of California, like Blythe, California? You get none of the benefits. There’s no women in bikinis. What are you getting for your 14% tax or whatever it is in Blythe? You might as well live across the border in Arizona. You might as well go up to Nevada. This is not California Dreamin’. This place is a hole. Sorry to all the people in Blythe, California, but you’re overpaying.

And so, I mean, I’ve seen this time and time again, and my philosophy on people, and a lot of people are moving to where you’re in, Austin, Texas from California because they’re saying, too many regulations, too many demands, too little freedom, taxes are going through the roof. And now, California wants to make it even worse. And I say, well, listen, if you’re already moving up, if you’re already moving, you’re going to Texas. One of the reasons people say they can’t move overseas, oh, the kids have to change schools, but the kids are going to change schools going to Texas. And now, one in nine Americans apparently is homeschooling because they’ve seen in front of their very eyes just how bad the schooling is that you get during this pandemic, and kids were learning from home.

So, if you have got to take the kids at a school, if you get a rear end, if you’ve got to sell the house, if you’ve got to do all that, why don’t you move to Puerto Rico? Why don’t you go and get 4% tax rather than reducing your state tax, but keeping the federal tax? Why don’t you go to Portugal? Why don’t you go? I mean, there are so many tax-friendly places that maybe offer you a better quality of life. And I think that people have these psychological barriers. They do have schools in Puerto Rico. They have schools in Portugal. They have schools in London, Singapore, and pretty much everywhere else, or you can hire a tutor or you can homeschool. I mean so, what I’m trying to convince people of is these are the imaginary lines that are out there and I think people draw imaginary lines in their mind where they’re saying California to Texas. Yes. California to Florida. Yes. But go to Puerto Rico, too weird. And I think even the people who go to Puerto Rico, sometimes, it’s like, well, that’s good enough. I’m a little bit uncomfortable. Any further is too uncomfortable. Why do we draw these imaginary lines for ourselves is, I think, another good question.

Justin Donald: No kidding because it is kind of like a mental game. It’s like how comfortable are you? What’s outside of your comfort zone? And really, it is, in my opinion, more of a familiarity than anything. I’ve heard of this. I’ve been there before. It’s all part of the US, for example, for those living in the US. And we had family, my brother-in-law and sister-in-law and their kids lived all over, I mean, they were in London. They are in Singapore. They are in Medellin. They’ve spent time all over the globe for extended stays, five-plus years in each location. And we spent a lot of time abroad.

And I’ve mentioned on my show before, I am pretty well traveled. Compared to you, maybe not. I think I’ve been to 76 countries, whereas I’m pretty sure you’re well over a hundred at this point. And so, you’ve got knowledge, you’ve got expertise. I’d love to know because one of the things that I love the most about your brand, Nomad Capitalist, like this whole goal and desire of having freedom. And I’m such a huge fan of personal freedoms and personal choice. And so, I know you are, I know that that’s what you stand for. I’d love to know some of your thoughts around these freedoms and what you’re experiencing in the 100-plus countries you’ve been to.

Andrew Henderson: Well, it’s been very interesting. I think there’s a lot, I mean, we get known for legally reduce your taxes. That’s a big topic. I think it drives a lot of people that we talked to who are the seven and eight-figure entrepreneurs and investors. For me, initially getting out of the US was I met people who are more interesting, seemed more friendly, seemed easier to get along with than in Europe, for example, and then in Asia after that than I ever did in the US, where 40-year-old women came to me in the street and insulted my scarf. And I must be a slur for this or that. I mean, it’s a weird place for me in the US. And so, that drove me. And then I realized, maybe better social opportunities, better dating opportunities. I mean, your country is probably not number one in anything, but what I also learned is freedom.

And if you live in the US, you think, okay, we have the Constitution that protects us. I mean, how many times are they not even following that anymore? There was a case recently where a judge told the FBI, no, you can’t go in and take everyone’s safe deposit box from this private vault facility just because you think a few of them are engaged in the drug trade. Well, they just didn’t listen. What happened? Nothing. People’s stuff got taken. This is the kind of thing people talk about banana republics. And yet, I store stuff all over the world. I have stuff in Singapore and Hong Kong and everywhere else. How many Americans are complaining about Hong Kong right now? Oh, it’s China. Oh, they’re not coming and taking my stuff. And so, now, many people are not taking your stuff in the US either, but the point is, I mean, what’s the difference when they can do whatever they want?

What I found is in other countries, you’ve got a lot more soft freedoms that you come here to Georgia, for example, there might be a hole in the sidewalk somewhere, and then they’re going to put 18 cones around it and put a giant OSHA-approved sign and everything else. You’ve got to watch out a little bit. It’s truly libertarian, but they’re also going to leave you alone for a lot of things. And I think right now, the freest places in the world are Eastern Europe. I have a home in Serbia. I spend time there. There are wide-open countries like Albania, wide-open North Macedonia, pretty wide-open Armenia, south of here, pretty open. Russia, if you could get in, is very open. And then parts of Central America, look at what Mexico is doing, one of the most free places in the world right now. Colombia has reopened, many of the Central American countries. Today, you have El Salvador adopting Bitcoin.

And so, these countries are practicing. Now, they’re practicing hard freedom because they’re refusing to participate in taking away everyone’s freedoms the way that Australia has, where you can’t even leave the bloody house. You can’t even go to a grocery store more than five kilometers away. You can’t leave your own country. It’s in violation of UN and international law that you can’t leave your own country. You can’t even return to your own country if they don’t want you now. What’s the point of citizenship? And so, we’ve seen not only in my travels, but it’s really been emphasized recently which countries have the most freedom, but what I’ve seen throughout all the years is soft freedoms.

I had a couple of rental properties in the US. I got a thing. As I’m trying to sell it, I get a thing, I get in a mailbox service in the US, I open it. I’m in Asia. So, whatever comes into the US, it’s like midnight in Malaysia. I open. Attention, criminal violation, open immediately. I’m like, oh my God, what’s going on? I open that. You didn’t cut your grass, it’s seven inches, it should be six inches. And I call this lawyer, he’s tellin me they’re selling these properties and he’s like, oh, they just send these stupid things out. They want 100 bucks from you. I’ll just go in, pay the hundred bucks, and that’ll be all. I mean, talk about drama queens. You don’t have that in all of these places, just that kind of stupid stuff. And it’s hard to quantify at times, but you feel a lot more free. And I talk to people who are in the US, and they share their angst with me. I just feel like kind of a wave of calm in many ways that I don’t have to fill out the stupid forms. I don’t have to deal with a complicated tax which I don’t have to do any of this stuff.

Justin Donald: So, for you, actually, there are a couple of things I want to get into. The first one that you mentioned was kind of this seizure of assets, and we’ll call this civil asset forfeiture. And for those that are unaware of what this is or that it even goes on, this is where the government deems it right to take possessions that you may have if they think that you illegally own them or you obtain them in a way that maybe isn’t good or maybe you shouldn’t have them because they’re illicit, whatever it is, but it’s basically, the right of the government to take your personal belongings without cause, without due process.

And then, once they have them, even when you are found innocent of such crime or whatever is being blamed on you, there’s this process to get them back with excessive legal fees and months to years to even get your own stuff back. Like I know people that have had a car seized because the government or the authorities thought this car was stolen when in fact, it wasn’t or maybe that it was used to transport drugs when maybe it wasn’t. I mean, the list goes on and on, but this confiscation of cash happens all the time. I mean, this is one of the major income producers for a lot of these government agencies. And I’d love to hear you weigh in a little bit on that, Andrew.

Andrew Henderson: Well, it’s very unfair. And you’ve seen that they come and they take the life savings of someone who owns a burrito shop because they deposit too much cash. Now, look at the law they want to pass. They can never do their own dirty work, by the way. So, they have taxes that are going nowhere but up. And some small business owners don’t report all their income. Now, I always reported my income and I suggest people follow the law. And if they don’t like the laws and they should go where they’re just treated best. And now, they want to spy on your bank account to know exactly how much is coming in and out. So, the banks will do the job that they are incapable of doing.

And so, they use that kind of stuff to come and take the burrito shop owners $30,000 because people buy burritos in cash. That’s a couple of years ago. Maybe they don’t entirely do so today, but they do so in cash. Yeah, I’ve seen stories and I’ve known people who have had problems. And to me, I mean, what’s the thing you break? How many federal laws do you break every day if you live in the US? I mean, one person said potentially hundreds of laws the average person breaks every day.

Justin Donald: Yeah.

Andrew Henderson: It’s too much, man. And then you come to something and you say, like, “Oh, show me your laws.” So I go, it’s like this, I mean, you would need this entire room to print out. I mean, it’s too much. And they love making laws. They love banking regulations. And look, by the way, this year, this is one of the things we were following around the dinner table when I was growing up, the Index of Economic Freedom. The United States is now, not only barely in, mostly free, it’s dropped to an all-time low of number 20.

When I was born, when you were born, the US was the number 1 country in the world to be born. And now, it’s barely in the top 20. The economy is barely in the top 20. It’s beaten by countries including Georgia, like Chile, ex-communist countries, countries that were a mess 40 years ago. Denmark, I mean, really, Denmark? Aren’t they like communists in Denmark? They’re beating you. So, it’s just really been falling apart, but it’s the frog in the boiling pot. We really don’t notice it. And if it doesn’t happen to you, I guess you figure, well, hey, what’s the problem? I can tell you there’s a difference in your body, at least from me, that you feel having more freedom in other places and not having this whole infrastructure designed to take your money, take your stuff, make your life difficult.

Justin Donald: Yeah, without a doubt. And there are pros and cons to anywhere. We all know that. I love your motto of go where you’re treated best. Now, let’s kind of dissect some things a little bit because there’s a lot of different strategies that you could have. So, one is that– and I think based on the world that we’re living in, who knows what’s going to happen? Who knows how long? For example, the US is going to remain a powerhouse, or the UK is going to remain a powerhouse, or wherever you are, like that can shift. That tide can change.

So, here are kind of like scenarios that could play out. One is that you keep your residency and you get another residency somewhere else. Another scenario is where you keep your residency and you just get another citizenship somewhere else. Another scenario is where you completely renounce your citizenship in your home country and then you can become a citizen of another country, but you don’t owe anything anymore to your home country. And US is one of the two in the world that kind of follows you wherever you go that if you don’t kind of renounce, they’re just always going to have a piece. And when you do renounce, there’s an exit tax.

So, I’m curious to hear how you may navigate through all these options and what you think because I do think that having a backup plan is really smart. You never know what’s going to happen. Some people may think I’m extreme, but I’ll tell you what, if things don’t go the way that people plan, I’m going to be happy that I bought that insurance policy. It’s the same reason I have homeowner’s insurance and car insurance.

Andrew Henderson: We see the people in the cryptos, whether we have many who are helping that are in crypto, but I’ll say, “Hey, the price of St. Lucia Citizenship-by-Investment is now two bitcoins.” They’ll say, “Oh, it’ll be half a bitcoin later.” Well, who knows what the US Congress has up its sleeve to make you disclose that crypto that you’ve been illicitly not disclosing and paying tax on, or that they raise the tax rate, or they do, God knows what. I mean, they’ve got a lot of crazy ideas right now. We’ve seen in the last two years. I’ve seen more talk of wealth taxes which have largely failed in Europe, I think, 9 out of 12 countries in Europe realize this is the dumbest thing ever. Wealth tax, it doesn’t work.

Elizabeth Warren is chuckling about how she’s going to make it work. Why? Because the US is the only country in the world that follows you anywhere. So, even if you’re an American living in Dubai, you’re going to pay the wealth tax. Here’s why I put this together. You’ve got plan A and you’ve got plan B. And plan A is what am I going to do right away? I’m going to move overseas immediately and I’m going to either reduce my taxes to zero, or if I’m an American, I’m going to reduce them substantially on my business or other assets. If I have passive income and I’m an American, I’m going to move to Puerto Rico. I’m going to expatriate. I’m going to do something like that. If I’m not an American, I have a lot of flexibility. I can simply choose where I go, choose my own tax rate. So, plan A is that. Plan A could be I’m going to get a second citizenship and then give up my US citizenship because I don’t agree with the country, I don’t want to be connected to it, I want peace of mind. Maybe I’ve got a big tax bill that I would like to make that the last big tax bill that I pay. I want to get out. I want freedom. That’s the plan A. These are all things that are plan A.

Then there’s plan B. Listen, who knows what could happen? I want an insurance policy, second citizenship. I have no plans to leave the US, at least for now. Or maybe I’ll travel around, but I want to keep my citizenship, get me a second passport so I have options. Just talked to a guy today. He’s going to have a big tax bill because he called me about three months too late. And he wanted to leave the US regardless, but the difference was he’s been accumulating crypto to fund that. He was like me. His unusual thing was not about taxes. He just doesn’t want to be associated with the US, but yet, he called too late because now, his wealth is growing too quickly. He’s going to have to pay a bill on the way out in all likelihood. And so, plan B could be, have a second passport so the minute you want to use it, you want to go to live in that country, there’s a problem, you need another passport because yours has been canceled because you didn’t do God knows what. That’s plan B.

Plan B could also be having a residence permit in a country that you wouldn’t have a citizenship. So, Singapore is not going to give you a citizenship. Dubai is not going to give you citizenship, the UAE, but you can be a resident there, and that could have tax benefits for people, especially not Americans, and that could be something you set up. I think owning real estate in a foreign country makes it a lot easier emotionally based on those lines in the sand to say, “Oh, yeah, now, we know Mexico. We get a house down there on the lake. Yeah, we’ll just go out of the house. No problem.” And I think that will help people avoid the I’ll leave when it’s too late. How many times throughout history do people say, “I’ll leave when it’s too late”? They left after it was too late.

So, my philosophy on this is, if you’re a successful person, entrepreneur, or investor, it is open season for you in many Western countries. They don’t want you. Look at the way they talk about you in the media. Look at how the politicians talk about you. Look at how– just again, go to Berlin, go to Germany. The people are saying I’m paying rent to you; therefore, I should own your house, and you should be kicked out and bankrupted. This is the way the Western world is going. They don’t care about you. And so, I at least want to have some properties in different places. I want to have some bank accounts in different places. I want to have a place where I can go, a home, a residence permit, which allows me to live there, and probably a citizenship, which allows me to travel. Those could be three different places, by the way, or two different places. So, it’s plan A versus plan B.

Now, Americans have a more difficult time because you’re always subject to the tax code. You can move to Puerto Rico. You can move your business offshore. You can reduce your taxes to 4% or 7% or 10%, depending on your situation, your income, etc. There are certain types of income that are harder to move for Americans. If you’re not an American, you simply leave your country, shut down what you have. There are some criteria to fill, and you choose where you want to go. And it’s that simple.

Now, I happen to think that you’re going to see more countries join the US in the next 10 years and start implementing extraterritorial taxation. It’s already being talked about in places like Canada where they’re saying, “Well, if you’re one of us, surely you should pay even though you don’t live here, shouldn’t you?” So, even though a Canadian may not need something in terms of passport right now, I would at least look, if not the more expensive citizenship-by-investment options in the Caribbean, I would look at, go to Mexico, get a residence permit, wait it out, go to other countries, wait it out, get a golden visa in Europe, invest some money, get on the path to a passport in the future because I think times are going to get tougher for the West.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And I mean, just to even talk about the idea of investing in foreign countries, and foreign is just anything that’s not your home country, right? Let’s look at it from the standpoint of like risks. What a great way to diversify your portfolio, to give additional options. And when I think about figuring out what a plan B would look like for my family or for people that I’m in community with, it doesn’t have to be as extreme as what you hear Andrew say. Now, for some people, it is this extreme. And for others, it might just be like, hey, just in case I want to do it or I’m about to have a big payday, so let me figure out how to reduce taxes or I’m really concerned about some of my rights being stripped. So, let me have an extra plan for freedom.

And I just think that this is something that’s worth considering because a lot of these countries, you can gain citizenship by investment, you can either buy it or you can invest in real estate or invest in a fund or invest in bonds that have to be held for five years or whatever. Their rules are around it, but there are a lot of options to consider. What I’d like to know is what do you think some of the better options are for residency and citizenship? You mentioned Portugal earlier, and I’ve read all kinds of great things about Portugal for both residency and citizenship. I’d love to know any that you think are great.

Andrew Henderson: So, Portugal is a residence that becomes a citizenship if you meet certain criteria. Citizenship by investment is in the Caribbean, you’re making a donation, you’re buying bonds. I generally don’t recommend any of the other options. There’s a lot of overpriced stuff. You’re getting a citizenship and if you’re doing the paperwork efficiently, six, seven, eight months, something like that, a program like Portugal, what they call the golden visas. By the way, you don’t have to come and live in a country like Georgia. We’re doing an increasing amount of work with countries like Ireland, English speaking, very developed. They have interesting programs. They have tax incentives. That’s going to cost a lot more in terms of investment, but Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Latvia have residents-by-investment programs where you can work towards citizenship or not. Maybe you don’t want citizenship. Maybe again, Singapore, Dubai, Monaco, very few people become citizens of those places.

But I think that from a real estate perspective, I think Turkey is an undervalued one. A lot of Americans kind of look askance at that. You basically can get a free passport. Now, it’s not going to be free if you do it wrong. Ninety percent of the inventory out there is garbage. You can go to almost any website. There’s a lot of scams. There’s a lot of hucksters. I mean it’s a very salesy culture. They’re selling inventory that’s worth 150 for 250, but if you find someone who knows the market, I bought a property in Turkey, and it’s worth more than what I paid for, not a lot, but it’s worth a little bit more.

You can get citizenship with a quarter of a million dollar real estate investment in a matter of months, and it’s a little bit less bureaucratic than some of the Caribbean options. Countries like Colombia are very interesting. I’ve talked about for Americans, Mexican residents, it’s right next door. You could drive there, relatively low requirements. I’m looking at agricultural land in Ecuador. I think Eastern Europe is very interesting. Serbia and Montenegro, more difficult for residents. Georgia, I think it’s going to become a little bit easier in the near future. So, those are the countries that I’d like.

Asia right now is largely shut down, like Thailand. They have an interesting investment visa program. Many people don’t talk about it. They look at the Elite visa, but Thailand is one of the more open countries in Asia, which isn’t saying much, but that’s a popular place where you can park some cash. So, I mean, best really is based on– I mean, we do diagnostic process with people. We will go through probably 200 different questions and a handful of scenarios. So, invest has so many endless permutations, but I think those are places to look at. It depends on what you want. Are you a $100,000 freelancer who wants to pay 1% in Georgia, buy a house with one year of the money you save? That’s an option. Other people want to go to the Cayman Islands and have a guy buying a $10 million house. It’s not the fanciest house in the Cayman Islands for $10 million. He’s living there tax-free. So, there are so many different options, but those are some that I’m working on right now.

Justin Donald: And if you think about it, Andrew, I mean, talk about someone going from 43% taxes to 1%, right? Or you could talk about Puerto Rico to 4% corporate, but probably 0% on most of what I would imagine a lot of people moving there would be taxed on, but in Georgia, 1%, I mean, you’re talking about eliminating the vast majority of taxes, which is incredible. Something I think is really neat about you, obviously, I mean, kind of your motto or your ethos is kind of like become a citizen of the world, like it’s the world as a whole, not these different lines, but where there are lines, take advantage of the rules and regulations and opportunities, but you have 15 passports, am I right? Or at least 50?

Andrew Henderson: No, I don’t have 50. No, I’ve got a handful of passports. I don’t talk about them. I’ve done a number of the investment programs and I’ve done other ones, but no, it’s a handful. I think the record of what I’ve heard is like nine.

Justin Donald: Okay, okay, but obviously, you have a bunch of residencies on top of that, so.

Andrew Henderson: A couple. Sometimes the residencies turned into citizenships eventually, so, or sometimes you just let it go because you don’t care anymore, but yeah, I mean, I have a good handful of them. I have bank accounts in probably that many countries or even more, some of which, I mean, it’s like I don’t want this bank account anymore, but I don’t feel like going there. So, I’ll just leave $7. And I’ve learned that’s not the best one, but yeah, I mean, I believe in having assets diversified. I believe in being very well diversified. I’m not 100% crypto. I’m not 100% real estate, but I believe in all these things.

And I practice what I preach, which I think more people should do. That’s why my approach to things is very holistic. If you buy that property in Turkey for citizenship, there may be certain things you need to report in your home country. If you’re going to rent it out, there’s probably some taxes you’re going to have to pay both in the country and at home. What’s the bank account that you open there to pay the bills? How does that get dealt with in your home country? Where do you travel? Does that mean you keep your citizenship? Like, if you get a residence permit, which passport do you use? I mean, this stuff all kind of works together. And I think that rather than trying to collect shiny objects, I mean, people should figure out what are they trying to accomplish? I want to reduce my taxes to 5% or less. I want to have an insurance policy against the United States, etc., etc. Those are the things people should be thinking about. And I think it’s more important than ever.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And one of the things I like that you said in your book is why not have a home on every continent? Why not just diversify that way, have places that you can go, which is great? Now, you’ve mentioned crypto.

Andrew Henderson: Not Australia anymore. That place is kind of turning into a mess, but every little continent.

Justin Donald: There you go. Yeah, it is a shame to see kind of what’s happening over there. And for people that are not aware, dig into what’s going on, it really is sad.

Andrew Henderson: It was years ago. I mean, I thought the US was bad and I ever flying through there, I was in Vanuatu, I was going to Vanuatu. And you come from the US. And I used to be a little more snarky than I am now. And we give the TSA guys. They’d be like, yeah, I’d always make them come into the path down and something. I’m like going through the machine and just kind of the libertarian in me was perhaps a little stronger then. And then I go to Australia. I’m like, “Hey, do you mind?” I’m like, “Alright, this is not my country. I’ll be nice about it.” I’m like, “Do you mind if I just do the alternative thing?” They’re like, “Oh, let’s see.” They’re like, “Yeah, sure. You can fly two days from now or something.” Like, there’s no alternate. The alternate is you go home. Something happens, and then two days from now, you fly to Vanuatu. Like, alright, fine, I’ll do it.

And I just realized this is worse than the US. It really is worse. And there’s something in the water there that people really love it down there in Australia. I mean, I’m trying to help them as much as possible, but I don’t know, they really like they have their brekky place with the avo toast and they have the beach view. I don’t know, man. I mean, it’s probably the worst place on earth right now.

Justin Donald: Yeah, I would agree with that totally. Now…

Andrew Henderson: The taxes are through the roof, I mean, whatever.

Justin Donald: Right. And based on the signs that I’m seeing, it’s just probably can get a lot worse.

Andrew Henderson: A lot of people like it. I mean, that’s really the thing. When you look at the Colombians, the Serbians, the Mexicans, and I’m sure someone will find one example or two examples, but these people, by the way, the book, The Fourth Turning talks about Eastern Europe this way. Latin America means people are fiery. They don’t want to put up with the stuff. You look at, yeah, I mean, even people in my audience, I mean, it’s the Nomad Capitalist. It is libertarianism. It is go where you’re treated best. People in my audience, oh, come on, Andrew. You just know this is a special circumstance in Australia. They had to do it. They have to deprive people of their rights. They have to keep their own citizens out. You’re just being difficult. What? You can’t get into your own bloody country, and I’m being difficult. And that’s what my audience thinks about it in some circles.

Imagine what the average Australian is saying. And that’s what it’s all about. This is the Western world now. Now, maybe Eastern Europe or something, maybe it was always this way, every man for himself. But there’s a sense of community and that’s what you’re paying this bill for, the 43% you mentioned, that there’s a community, and we stick out for each other. Don’t you want to pay taxes for your fellow man? Well, wait a second. You can’t get back into your country. When you’re stranded somewhere, they say, “Screw you” or they say, “Oh, we’ll send a private jet. Do you have 100 grand?” Your fellow man doesn’t care about you. What are you paying into this system for exactly? What is this alleged benefit of the community? No, it’s a shaming technique they use to extract your money so they can get it.

Justin Donald: Interesting. So, I’m curious, with your desire for freedom and to help other people reduce taxes, gain more freedom, to be more worldly, what’s your stance on cryptocurrencies?

Andrew Henderson: Well, as I said, we weren’t lucky from the crypto space. I have over the course of many years. We took our first bitcoin at the end of 2013, and I wish I would have held on to more of that. It took me a while of working with people and of knowing people and friends who were in the space back like 2013 to 2014, but I did get into it. I’m not a 100% guy in anything. It interests me in some perspective if someone says bitcoin is going to be $10 million each. Well, at that point, bitcoin will constitute whatever much greater percentage of my net worth. And that’s fine.

Am I going to care that I have $180 million rather than $190 million? Or 180 versus 380? No, because I do believe that part of what this is about is enjoying your life. And that’s why I own real estate that I think makes me more productive, that I can use, that’s done up the way that I want it to be done. It helps with my business, which is not only a profitable thing to have and helps fuel more investments, including crypto, but it’s a personal calling for me. And I think anyone who has built a business knows that.

So, I’m a big believer in crypto. I’m not all-in. I respect people who are all-in and I have a lot of people who are all-in. I think it does make your life more difficult in my space when again, just a guy earlier today, he’s like 95% crypto, that’s going to be a lot harder to get him through the bureaucratic processes of residence and citizenship because they don’t necessarily understand crypto. They want to see a bank statement, right? And so, I think that’s important to navigate, but I think, I mean look, the results speak for themselves.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And there are 13 countries that don’t tax Bitcoin, is that right? Or tax the capital gains?

Andrew Henderson: There’s a handful of countries. Yeah, some have different conditions, I mean, if you stay in a country, Germany, for example, for now at least, after a year. Portugal’s pretty friendly. Yeah, there’s a number of them that have been pretty friendly for sure.

Justin Donald: Now, in your book, you talk a lot– so, you’ve got a great book, and I’ve got it right here, Nomad Capitalist. And you’ve just done, in addition to it, you’ve extended it. There’s a bunch of new content. Obviously, for something like this, things are always changing. So, it’s great that you’ve got a new edition with updates and extra chapters and everything, which is super cool.

Andrew Henderson: And that was, by the way, the thing. I mean, the book is not like the official guide of every passport and the price. I’ll be updating the thing every week. It is an entree to everything that you can do to where you get the vibe, you get the perspective, you get the stories, you get some ideas, and then you take it from there. And yes, we did recently update it. The new one has my picture on the front because someone says that’s what you have to do with the book, just put your picture on the front.

Justin Donald: I like it. Well, in your book, you have something called the “E-K-G” formula.

Andrew Henderson: Yeah.

Justin Donald: And I’d love to have you share that.

Andrew Henderson: Well, the idea is basically enhancing your freedom, keeping more of your wealth, then growing what you have. And so, freedom is important. I’ll tell you this. I paid very little tax legally as an American when I was a US citizen. So, the idea of Andrew, people renounce their citizenship for taxes. I was paying, I think, in the last year literally zero, but the challenge was there’s a lot of restrictions, a lot of regulations. There’s a lot of forms to file. There’s a lot of reports that are made. And you’re subject to this and that. And you’re also restricted in how you use your money.

And so, being able to go out and acquire more real estate to enhance my lifestyle, being able to go and live in more places that enhance my freedom, having a peace of mind that I wasn’t to run afoul of some form, having the peace of mind that I didn’t have to be the citizen of a country. I always kind of felt weird, it’s like, here’s the American. That really helped me to be productive. I mean, if you look at my income, my net worth since leaving, I think that the weight, there’s a psychological weight that was removed that helped just– there’s a whole perspective change that really helped.

So, enhancing your freedom is very important. I think for any entrepreneur or investor, it’s a good thing to have. Keeping more of what you earn is pretty straightforward. We just outlined how your country is not really giving it that much more. I don’t believe that you are getting much more in the West. Talk about the diplomatic corps, for example. I had a couple of team members of mine from here, Georgian citizens, come to elsewhere in Europe for a training we did. The ambassador drove them to the airport afterward and got them on to their plane. I don’t think the US ambassador is helping. In fact, we had a guy lose his wallet here, and he was like, something happened. And he called because they needed to get something replaced. They wouldn’t even answer the phone. So, why are you paying 43% for that when you could live here and pay 1%? What are you getting? So, keep more of what you earn, offshore companies, restructuring, all that kind of stuff.

And then, growing what you have, now, yields are down a lot of places, and if you want to use leverage, which I don’t, then the US is good for leverage for sure, for like real estate investing. You’re not going to get 95% loans in most places in the world, and interest rates aren’t going to be as low in most places in the world, but you do have the potential to have much higher returns. I mean, look at my portfolio this year. India has been an outperformer. Cambodia has been a very successful investment for me over the years in terms of growth, in terms of yield. Georgia has been successful. I mean, I’ve done a lot of good deals around the world because these markets are growing.

I always have the concern if I’m buying something in New York City or in Sydney or in Berlin, are they going to take my property? Are they going to increase my taxes to where it’s not going to make it even feasible? Like what happened in Greece years ago, where they eightfold increased in property taxes. Nobody wanted to own property. You can’t sell it. They’re going to restrict how you rent it out. I want to go to places where you can actually grow your money. And I just don’t think that’s many countries in the West.

Justin Donald: Yeah, there’s so much truth to what you said. And earlier, you had talked about this, and I’ve done a lot of research on this as well, just this whole optionality of having assets all over the globe, having assets in foreign storage, having assets that are in multiple banks around the world, different jurisdictions because anytime something happens, like a bank can implode overnight because even today, the solvency ratios are just anemic, and they’re not as strong as you think. Like a lot of people look at insurance companies and they think their banks are stronger than insurance companies, but an insurance company has to have 100% of the money on hand at any given time if everyone that they insure died at the same time, whereas a bank uses fractional reserve lending, and there just are some kind of egregious investments that they do with a portion of those funds.

And so, having money in some of these foreign banks, in fact, their banks in Georgia that are some of the highest-rated banks in the world in terms of what they give you for your interest and the solvency ratio. And I just think that that’s brilliant, just having exposure to gold and silver, physical gold and silver, and even different locations around the globe. I’m curious of your thoughts because, I mean, a Cyprus banking event can happen anywhere and it’s going to happen again in the future. I just watched a line in Afghanistan for the bank. That was the longest line I’ve ever seen anywhere for anything like ever in my entire life. And so, I can just only imagine what could be happening there.

Andrew Henderson: I think that the issue, again, is I had a friend from Australia many years ago, said we’re taught you buy even in your own city in Australia. Other cities, what do you know now? Now, obviously, there’s a learning curve, and like anything else, you learn. You work with people like myself and the network that I’ve built over the years, which has taken a lot of time and a lot of travel. It’s valuable. You can go and learn it yourself. You can go and make friends, whatever. But I think that you never know what will happen in one place. And some of the silly lines, oh, what if Russia invades? Sure. I mean, I guess that’s something that has happened in the past. I think if you want to get into a deep geopolitical conversation, I don’t see it happening again. People talking about what if a country takes your property? Well, I know some countries where they’re already taking your property. And I think that a lot of these countries have learned the lesson of stuff that didn’t work, communism and all that kind of stuff, whether it’s Nicaragua, Serbia, anywhere else. Malaysia came out recently. Well, all the Western countries, there’s like no wealth taxes. They said we’re not going to have a wealth tax. Uruguay came out, we’re not going to raise taxes.

Again, countries like Georgia can’t raise taxes. Smaller countries have to be more competitive. And so, I think that my philosophy is, again, get past the imaginary lines in your mind. And yes, if you want to go to Armenia next door and earn 5% interest on your US dollars, you can do that. Now, certainly, if the entirety of your portfolio is in crypto, then 5% may not look very good, but if you want some in Fiat, you can do that. If you want to put your money in the Armenian dram, which if you look at a five-year chart, is really pretty much even with the dollar, you can get 10% on that.

And yes, you may have a bit more privacy in some cases. Banking secrecy is really a thing of the past. It’s not the Wolf of Wall Street hiding your money in Swiss bank accounts, but a little bit more privacy. You could get higher solvency ratios. And I remember living in the US at the end of the last decade, well, at the end of the 2000s, how many banks went under? I mean, hundreds, maybe even a thousand in a couple of years. How many banks went under in Singapore? Zero. But guess what? There’s probably a lot of people in Singapore who were saying, “I don’t want to invest in the US. That seems pretty scary to me.” Oh, and by the way, if you’re a foreigner and you invest in the United States, there’s an estate tax when you die. That’s their thanks for investing in their country.

Justin Donald: Yeah, the long arm of the law in the US is quite extreme and…

Andrew Henderson: But just think about it for a second. Georgia saying, you come here, you live here, you pay 1% tax, okay. And again, for Americans, a little more complicated than that. The US is saying you may have never been to our country. And I had a guy, he had almost $10 million in property. His father is 78 years old. And father passes away. The way they had structured their property, they’re going to a huge estate tax bill. They had never even been to the United States. So, what kind of a competitive environment is that for attracting investment? It’s what I call a legacy brand.

When they think that a country you’ve never been to, and the services you’ve never received, should tax you $3 million on something like $8 million in investments for the privilege of dying, that means you’re not competitive, you are living off of the fumes, you are the Louis Vuitton of countries. Now, I like Louis Vuitton, but does anybody think Louis Vuitton is the number one best value in men’s footwear? No. And so, if you want to have the prestige of telling your friends how you have your money parked in the US, then I guess go ahead and park it and pay the $3 million when you want to keel over, but it’s not really a good deal and it doesn’t really speak to how the country thinks of its investors.

Justin Donald: Well, taxes are only going to go up because our debt is only going up. Our money printing is only going up. There’s just no way out of it. And the irony is these increases in taxes, though they’re large to the citizens, are very small, like they can never capture, even close to the debt, like they’re not even capturing the interest of the debt, let alone the principal, let alone, I mean, it’s just…

Andrew Henderson: They’re not capturing anything because every dollar they come in, they’ve got a new plan for it.

Justin Donald: Right. Yeah, so…

Andrew Henderson: I met a woman once. She’s like, “You know, I like to invest in purses.” I said, “That’s not an investment, darling. Your purses are not an– maybe it’s an investment to look nice and people want to talk to you, but your purse is not an investment.” And throwing money in a bureaucratic school system, that’s not an investment. Now, sure, giving people a proper education. You want to measure which country is the best education system? I’ll give you a hint. The US isn’t even the top couple dozen. I mean, people are running rings around them in other countries. And so, I mean, these politicians have all these fakakta investments that aren’t even investments. It’s basically, a glorified form of corruption and money laundering, but, oh, you can’t say the US is one of the most corrupt countries. That’s what it costs a billion dollars to be elected president.

Justin Donald: Yeah, there’s so much truth behind your words. And the one thing I want our audience to keep in mind is you may not be thinking about leaving the US, but Andrew has solutions for people that even want to stay in the US. For those of you who are listening and watching, who are part of the US, for those of you that are in another country, whatever your home country is, you might not be thinking about leaving that country, but doesn’t it make sense to consider all options to mitigate taxes, all options to protect your family, all options to have additional plans, additional insurance? And so, the whole idea here, though, Andrew has left and he’s not part of the US. He’s got residency and citizenship in multiple other countries. You don’t have to do that to take advantage of all the great things that are happening in the countries around you. So, I think that’s the message. Andrew, where can our audience find out more about you?

Andrew Henderson: Here’s where I would start. I think the book, if you spend a few bucks, is a good place to start because I put together a lot of stories. It’s a little fun just to give you the broad strokes of all the stuff we’re talking about. You have to condense 3,000 pieces of free content into, I guess, about a 400-page now book since we updated it. That’s a great place to start because you’re going to really understand, again, the vibe. I tell people all the time, don’t get into shiny object collection. I have a St. Lucia passport as one of my passports that helped me accomplish numerous other things, including a year or two later, things I didn’t entirely expect but thought might happen in the future. So, I had a reason. I didn’t just want to have an extra booklet around my house, so I’m against shiny object collection. You’re going to get the vibe if you read the book.

We have a YouTube channel, Nomad Capitalist, 1,300, I think, plus videos. We have a blog at NomadCapitalist.com. You can click on articles, you can read something like 1,600 articles or more. And then, ultimately, if you are a seven or eight-figure entrepreneur, what does that mean? It means you make half a million dollars a year or more, you have a net worth of a million dollars or more, one or both of those. We have a holistic service that speaks to what I wish existed when I started this process 14 years ago to jump in all the results you want, to kick out the stuff you don’t need, to focus on the stuff you do need, to make sure it works together, to support you, as well as that doesn’t work together to get you in trouble, my example that I gave earlier about the property and the reporting requirements and all that, almost nobody does this because people have their little thing they’d like to sell. They want to sell you the passport. They want to sell you the company, but those things, in my experience, there are always more things that you need to make it work.

And so, we create holistic plans for people. It’s not a cheap process. It is a boutique process with me and a hand trained team. That’s what we do for people. And I think that if you come having gone through the free or the free content or the book, you’ll be well prepared and understand why it is that I think that way because I’ve seen far too many people make the mistakes, myself included, of just going out and getting the one thing. So, that’s the service that we offer, but I think you want to educate yourself before you do that.

Justin Donald: Yeah, I think that’s great and just for perspective, for a family of four, what’s the going rate now for a passport for each member in St. Lucia? I think it’s like 160,000 or something like that.

Andrew Henderson: They’ve got a couple of different programs. Yeah, I almost never do St. Lucia for a family of four. You’d probably look at what are the tax-free islands like in Antigua or St. Kitts that are from 130 to 150. What people don’t realize is they do have a good amount of fees, depending on how old the kids are. They may be subject to due diligence. Everyone needs lots of documents notarized, APA style. I mean there are a lot of things, even when I did St. Lucia. Oh, we need your elementary school transcripts. My elementary school is closed. How do you handle that? You do an affidavit.

So, I mean, I think you’re looking at 200 grand or something for it to be done properly, all-in. No one’s going to give you the all-in number. They’re going to tell you their fee, and then there are 12 other fees, but probably something like 200 grand all-in. That said, that’s going to be one of the fastest ways to do it. You could look at Turkey, you could go up the realm. You could look at places like Malta. Bulgaria has a program that’s not talked about a lot. You could look at golden visas that turn into citizenship in the future. You could check your family tree. Do I already qualify for a European citizenship?

Had a guy today, was born in Mexico. That means he’s a Mexican citizen. His parents didn’t know that, but he was born in Mexico. Kind of like the US, you’re a citizen by birth. You can do the same by the way, if you’re giving birth to kids, you can go to one of these other countries that offers it and get the kids a second passport. Check your family tree. There are ways you can get citizenship more slowly. Put money in the bank, invest in bonds, get a passport in three years. I mean, there are so many different ways to do it.

If you’re running a business and you’re hiring 10, 20, 50 people, there are ways you can get on a track to citizenship, not only in Turkey, Bulgaria, Portugal, other countries as well. Even one or two people sometimes qualify for residence that turns into citizenship. So, I mean, there are like five main ways. Plus, if you’re married to someone who has a different citizenship, that could be a way to do it. I mean, you want to check all of these avenues. I had a guy once and he said, “How much is citizenship for my family of three? I want to expatriate in the US.” And I said, “Well, hold on a second. You qualify for a citizenship in Asia for free. Why don’t we get that and save you hundreds of thousands of dollars?” So, that’s the kind of thing I would encourage people to think about, but to answer your question, a family of four, probably going to look at one of the higher level citizenship programs, which prioritizes families of four over the cheaper ones which prioritize singles.

Justin Donald: Yeah, that’s great. Great feedback. And it sounds very expensive. It is very expensive until it comes in handy and it’s the greatest investment that you made. So, I share all this, and we bring this information to you. I have Andrew on my show because I think it’s good to just consider all the alternatives, consider what it looks like to live somewhere else, consider what it looks like, not even to live somewhere else, just to utilize tax advantages of some other country. And as I close all my shows, I just want to challenge you to take one step. What is the one step you can take today that gets you closer to financial freedom and living the life that you truly desire, a life by design, not by default? Thanks. And we will catch you next week.

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