006: The Unexpected Gift of Financial Success with David Osborn

Justin Donald: Well, I'm really excited to be here today spending some time with my good friend David Osborn. And, man, we had a great evening last night with an impromptu Dave Chappelle show that no one even knew was happening until literally like the minute it was released. And then, I think the tickets sold out in like a minute. And of course, you being as connected as you are, you always find a way to get all tickets to anything and everything cool. Yeah, what were your thoughts? I mean, I thought it was hysterical.

 

David Osborn: Yeah, it was. So, I was sitting with Tim and a friend of mine texted me, another friend of ours, and said, “Hey, did you know Chappelle is doing a pop-up show?” He does these like, “Hey, I'm here. I'm going to do a show thing. And can you get tickets?” And I was like, “Wow, that sounds like a lot of fun.” So, we went to work and we found two tables and we got 14 of our friends there or 12. How many, 8 plus 6, 14? 14 of our friends instantaneously. That COVID test was extremely uncomfortable. Everybody in the audience did a COVID test. I felt like they went up to my eyeball up through my nose. Did you? Yeah, that wasn’t much fun.

 

Justin Donald: Oh, yeah. I had never done one before. And, man, did they go deep? I mean, to the point of like, eyes tearing up.

 

David Osborn: And they just kept like rolling around in there. I'm like, “Are you trying to pull my brains out through my nose? What are you trying to do here?”

 

Justin Donald: They're very invasive.

 

David Osborn: But it was hilarious. I haven't laughed that long. He is so politically incorrect and it was pretty touchy at times. But, man, he was funny as heck.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, you can't go wrong. I mean, you're paying for quality entertainment. And you're going to get that quality entertainment with Dave Chappelle so…

 

David Osborn: That’s right.

 

Justin Donald: That's awesome. Well, I am just thrilled to have you on the podcast because David, you and I have talked high level and we've gotten into the nitty-gritty details of investing. And I love your thought process. I love the analytical lens that you have. I love how you've built systems and protocol around the investment decisions that you make. I just think it's awesome. And I'm just excited to spend some time with you. So, I figured we'd start with having you share, what is most exciting in your world right now? What's going on?

 

David Osborn: Yeah, so that's a great question. What's most exciting to me right now, Justin, is actually being closer to my wife. Like, I finally realized a few years ago that I have enough money and I’d always want a little more, I mean, I'm not saying no to more, but it's like, I had a certain personality that was very well wired to make money. And I've developed that over many, many, many years, but the cost of that was sometimes intimacy and closeness with my wife.

 

And so, right now, this year, I'm doing a tremendous amount of work on my consciousness to sort of disarm the armor that I've built up for economic war, so I can be more present as a man, a husband, and a father for my kids. Now, I say that, I don't want you to think I'm not in the game, I'm still heavily in the game. There's no chance that the way I'm wired, I won't forever be engaged in business. It's just a reprioritizing of things.

 

And maybe, some guys healthier than me already come into life with that, but I certainly kind of went all in on wealth building, had kids, definitely started softening, but now, I'm really seeing the fruits of getting back in touch with my heart and my wiring and disarming myself a little bit, so I can be more present and more authentic with my wife which is really cool. I'm enjoying the process. It's terrifying and it's interesting and scary and it's super fun.

 

Justin Donald: Well, it's fun being a friend and part of your inner circle where I can see the work being done. So, when you say, I'm working on this, I mean, I've seen just huge strides, not that anything wasn't great before, but you've been so intentional. And when I hang out with your wife, I can just see the glow, like I know you're there, I know you're present. And it's really cool. And by the way, when you have your finances in place and you learn to become a strong investor, these are some of the realities that you get where you can shift energy from trying to create business or create income to being able to apply it to wherever you want it. And I honor you for saying, “Hey, my number one priority in my world is my family.” I think that's awesome.

 

David Osborn: Yeah, and what you said is so true, man, it's like the greatest gift. The unexpected gift of driving myself to financial success is that that self-accountability and self-mastery to some degree you have to have to build that financial success can be taken and applied now to being a better husband, a better father. Not everyone chooses to do that, but I have the ability to discipline myself, read books, meditate, contemplate, think on what I’m doing and how I'm approaching things, and change the pieces of my mindset that aren't working, which is exactly what I had to do getting into business, where I had to give up being a victim and procrastinating and whining and complaining and had to take full accountability and get after it and choose my goals and set my purpose of being purposeful.

 

All of those things were skills that I developed over time. And then, taking that same skill set and applying it to almost anything. I've also applied it to my health over the last three or four years and had great strides there. So, it's just a really cool byproduct, unexpected byproduct of being a very accountable human being.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, without a doubt. And here's the thing that, I don't know if everyone fully gets this, you and I, we spend a lot of time, we've talked about this a bunch, we journal, we read, we think, we have uninterrupted technology-free time to just give us a place to reflect. And I think that's so important, but what I think a lot of people don't realize is that, like, it's not that it's easy to do this, I don't know if you experienced this the way that I do, but I mean, being in business, getting in investments, being on the entrepreneurial path, that is kind of more an easier default.

 

So, if I'm not intentional, then my default becomes those things because they come more natural, whereas putting time into family, you've got to really be intentional to say, “Hey, I'm not going to get distracted. I've got a million other things going on, but I'm going to be present today.” And this is the thing that maybe I'm not as good at as being a businessman or being an investor, any thought?

 

David Osborn: Yeah, it’s a different speed, I mean, the family is a slow speed, it's a deep speed, it's a slow pulse. Business is a very fast pulse, very fast speed. The more stuff you do in business, the more successful, I would rather guy in business, did 50 things, 25 of them wrong and 25 of them right, then one thing right. But in family, it's like getting that one thing right and all that one thing is his presence, attention. So yeah, for sure, it's easy to flip back and forth, but the way I use my goals is like, one of my goals is to plug my phone in beside my bed at 7pm and just leave it, so I don't have it in my hand, so it's not a distraction. So, if I'm with my kids at dinner with my family, I'm not picking it up and looking to see what the latest email I got.

 

There might be something I can deal with an attack, making sure that I have my 24 date nights with my wife, making sure I have my 12 overnight date nights, making sure I have my 12 what we call them the family board meeting with my kids. We have four uninterrupted hours with no technology with each one of my kids at least once a month, taking guitar with my daughter. There's so many little things like already I'm very conscious of doing something with my son and it's all about presence. It’s a very different energy than like the multitasking hyperactive ADD entrepreneurial energy that I've cherished and developed also, for so long.

 

Justin Donald: That's so great. And, David, you are one of my most calculated and goal-oriented friends. I mean, I just love looking at your journals because you have tabs and you bring that thing with you everywhere. And it's no wonder you're successful because you're tracking everything and you have objectives each day and each week. And it's really cool seeing you apply what has been so successful in working, in business into the family. I just think that that is just fantastic and very honorable.

 

David Osborn: Yeah, thanks, man. I'm a very self-created man. And what I mean by that is there are people that are just naturally gifted and naturally talented. Frankly, you're extremely athletic, so you've got this sort of natural inherent gift. I didn't have that like so and my brother is actually… But anyway, so like growing up, like, I had to make a lot of conscious decisions how to manage my time and manage my efforts and create my outcome. So, I'm a very learner, accomplished person. What I mean by that is I'm definitely not an academic, what I mean is I try to figure out what works and apply it in my life. And that's how I've self-created myself into a very highly successful person.

 

And I wasn't innately that way to begin with. I didn't have that sport thing that so many guys have to fall back on with a discipline around sports, I didn't have a high work ethic around high school or college, like there was nothing in me that, in one of my high schools, I think I was voted the least likely to succeed, but what I did have was a sort of burning desire to be free of other people, if that makes sense. And I think that I nurtured that as the acorn that grew into this oak tree of strength that I think I represent today. But it started with just, like I got 20, 30 years of consciously applying what works to building a successful life, not just like an instinctive, natural way of being.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, and I love that you're always wanting and choosing growth. You can't be complacent. You've got to find the next thing, I mean, we were talking not too long ago about just how big of a fund you want to create, being just massively more, 10, 20, 50 times the size of previous funds that you've had which have been majorly successful. And then, also, you've done a great job of systematizing growth. And even putting people in place that take you out as the bottleneck, if we don't put people around us to support ourselves and to support our business, then we become the bottleneck to that business and you've done such a great job. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on how you strategically made those moves.

 

David Osborn: And if there's one thing that I was born with it was a lack of satisfaction with the status quo. So, like, I may not have had the inherent athletic ability or the chess club ability or a musician, but I definitely always was leaning into transformation. I'm an enemy of the status quo, I believe the status quo is death. In other words, if you stay the same, you may as well not exist, 90% of what we do as highly conscious people is robotic, anyway, so I'm really trying to expand that 10% of presence and flourishing.

 

And I think that's something to cultivate because kids are in it all the time. They're probably 90% just presence and then, they slowly switch that to more and more organized over time, but I just really get the presence and the flourishing piece, the transformative pieces, where the edge, the cutting edge of living life is. And if you're not doing that, you're not really alive. And that's not a knock on anybody, but if you hate your job and you hate your life and you're just waiting for the weekends, you're not really alive, you're kind of like going through the motions. Does that make sense?

 

So, yeah, so being so calculated around growth and personal development, I've had so many aha’s, like, so I started my first franchise in 1996, I guess, ’95, ‘96. And pretty soon, I had two franchises and pretty soon, I realized I was the bottleneck in my world. And what I meant by that is I thought I was super significant. I was trying to do everything. And I had managers because each franchise required a manager, so I'd hire a manager and then, I call the manager, like, why haven't we signed that lease? And the manager would be like, I said it to you, like a month ago. And I'd realized that I had this pile of unmanaged paperwork on my desk and I had this big aha that I had become the bottleneck for my life.

 

And so, I began to delegate more and there's no way you scale.  One of my favorite sayings is, I do it. We do it. They do it. And many people think we do it is like big guy, little we. What they mean by that is, yeah, I got a bunch of minions that run around picking up my stuff. When I say we do it, I mean, like, equals, like virtual equals. They may not have your role, but they're in authority over their role. Does that make sense? And then, they do it where actually you have people that are better than you in every aspect of your organization.

 

So, again, remember, this is a 26-plus-year journey of mastery, but I learned all these things. When I first learned this concept of, your life is only as good as the people you have in it, I had one assistant and she was lame, and she was like, mediocre. She was a lovely person, but she only did like half of the workflow that I give her every day and I never were sure which half. And she was pleasant and she was nice, there was no reason to fire her.

 

That's why I always say what's worse than a bad hire is actually a mediocre hire because a bad hire, you’re clear, I got to get out of business with you. But a mediocre hire, you're like kind of stuck. Well, you're not really bad enough to fire, but you're not doing a good enough job to be excited either. So, I was trapped in that mediocrity, nothing to do with her. She was actually a pretty special girl and probably an amazing person, but just not that motivated about work.

 

And that was the beginning of a long journey of learning how to identify great talent, put them in place. And the way I'd say it, Justin, is like, who would you work for? Who would you work for? And you're not going to find great talent, that's going to want to be under somebody's thumb. And I think what I've been lucky enough to do is attract some amazingly talented people that are probably more talented in their niches than I am that successfully drive businesses that make me a lot of money. And each one of them feels like they own that position and they do to a high degree.

 

I check the numbers, I have oversight, I'm seeing what's going on, but generally speaking, if you hire a Brahman bull, you don't hook them up to a yoke, you sort of try to keep them on the playing field that you want them to play on, but you don't like try to overly harness them or control them or pull them back. And because of that, I've got some really, really, really talented people that work for me. And I couldn't have them if I tried to keep them under my thumb.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, that is such wise counsel. And I love the way that you look at it. And I subscribe to that fully as well, where it's more of like a macromanagement versus a micromanagement and you give people a place for them to kind of perform and take ownership and they're going to learn lessons from their mistakes and the right people are going to perform a lot better because they had the space to make the mistakes in the first place.

 

David Osborn: Absolutely. In fact, if a guy makes a mistake for me, I'm excited about it, hopefully doesn't cost me too much money, but it's never like a firing thing. And I remember reading an article about a guy that lost 100 million dollars at a hedge fund and he was a very talented guy, but he made a bad bet. And he went in and handed his resignation to the CEO and the CEO was like, “Are you kidding me? I just paid 100 million dollars for your education. I'm not accepting your resignation. Get back to work and try to make my money back, but don't gamble like you did before.”

 

So, my aha is that, is like you let people run, you let them make mistakes. The One Minute Manager was one of my favorite books, the same concept of the Socratic method, where if a guy brings me a problem, I try to never solve it. Early in my career, I used to get great significance out of solving people's problems. And in fact, there was even a point where I had three or four franchises, where I was running around solving all the problems and I felt important, but it was limiting, like I couldn't go beyond a certain threshold, I actually got shingles from stress, I was overworking, I had too many hours in the day.

 

And then, I read The One Minute Manager, I got a lot of coaching from different people, I learned to ask questions. So, now, what I try to do and I'm still not 100%, but people bring me a problem like, “Wow, that sounds really tough. What would you do?” “Well, I don't know. That's why I'm asking you,” like, “Okay, but if I wasn't around to ask, what would you do? Instead of one, what are the three things you think are options that you could do?” And they're like, Well, I could do this, this, or this? Okay, of those three, which one do you like the most? I'm like, this, I'm like, Okay, well, why don't you try that?

 

In fact, recently, a guy, one of my guys came to me, he's negotiating compensation for one of our high paid sales people and that guy makes like 300, 000 or 400,000 a year from us. He's like, “Man, I'm just waiting to go over this with you.” And I'm like, “Well, you've put it all together, right?” He goes, “Yeah, I got a lot of time and I just want to go over it with you.” And I'm like, “Well, which decision have you made out of the three compensation decisions?” He goes, “Well, I'm kind of leaning towards this.” And I'm like, “Okay, well, just go do that. I don't even need to talk to you about that.”

 

That's all I needed, like five-minute conversation. You have authority over this guy that we pay 500,000 a year, 400,000. Now, I know roughly what he's talking about. So, we're not talking about like some range that's not on the playing field. I'm just like, you just do it, go negotiate it, and finish that process off. And now, that man who works for me is now going to be that much more advanced, that much more capable because I trusted him.

 

And it's so many owners just come in and they solve all the big stuff for their people, which keeps all your people small and doesn't really give you the opportunity to get into business with great people because I can tell you what great people do, really talented people often, almost always, not always, but often, they're like, “Get out of my space, man,” like, “you hired me to run this business, just back off, and I'll get you results.” And if the guy is waiting for you to tell them to do, if they keep coming back, like what should I do now? What should I do now? And you're two years into the relationship, maybe early on, that's okay, but if they're two years in, you don't have a 10 out of 10 guy, you might have an 8, you might have a 7, but the 10 out of 10s push you out of the way. And the only way you get the 10 out of 10s is if you are willing to have an organization where people have a lot of room to run.

 

Now, the one mistake I see, Justin, is people will sometimes hire a 7 and treat them in the way we're talking about, the super macro level. And if you have a 7 out of 10, you actually have to be more micro. If you have a 7 out of 10, which is acceptable to me, you could get them to an 8 by extreme accountability, but they'll never be a 9 or a 10. The only 9s and 10s are the people that are like, “Hey, I'm going to figure all this out, I'm into self-mastery, I'm into personal growth.” Yeah, I'll take instruction from you for the first six months, so I know what I'm doing, but eventually, they're like, “Hey, just back off and let me make you money.”

 

And then, you've just got to pay attention to the finances, you have to ask some oversight, the legal pieces, just make sure they're not like about to drive the car into a cliff at 100 miles an hour. Like I couldn't sustain 100-million-dollar loss, so I don't have that option, but ultimately, those are the kind of people that I love to be in business with.

 

Justin Donald: Well, yeah, and besides that, that's how you scale properly and that's how you do that yourself. So, if you don't get those people involved, then you're going to be a slave to your business. And there's still a good likelihood even with those people involved, you're going to be a slave to your business, but without them, how do you remove yourself in a way that your business has the ability to scale? And so, I love that. And this would actually be a cool way to take a step back because you're an anomaly in this, David, you have had success as an entrepreneur and as an investor.

 

And generally, what I see are the people that are very strong entrepreneurs and have had success there, maybe they exit a company or maybe they are able to build a very profitable lifestyle, type of business where it produces a ton of income, but they don't have to work a ton. And that's rare, but it exists. You find those people when they transition to the investor side and they fail miserably and they lose a lot of money because the skill sets are not the same. I'm really curious how you were able to bridge that gap, both on the entrepreneurship side, which we've heard a lot about today, but then that transition to investor.

 

David Osborn: Yeah, sure, that's a great question. And I think and this always puzzles me because I'm in a very high-net-worth investing group, you're in it as well with me and there's guys in there that you're like, Wow, this guy's brilliant. He's built 100-million-dollar business and he doesn't know anything about investing. It's shocking. I kind of got into this group thing and all these guys are all going to be like amazing Warren Buffetts to me and then, I'm like, Oh, no, they're not really that good. They're one thing specialists that have made a bunch of money, not all of them, but a lot of them have just crushed it in one area and they're really not that good at the other stuff.

 

I think it goes back to what I said the beginning of the conversation of being a self-created guy. I'm very thoughtful. I spent a lot of time thinking and I've made plenty of mistakes, Justin, so you're kind to say I'm a good investor, but I've had more wins than losses, and I think for two reasons, one is I stick a lot to real estate and two is I'm still learning based. And I think you should miss make mistakes. I was having lunch with a guy the other day, he's worth 150 or 200 million, and he has a bunch of real estate, you know him, but I'm not going to mention because he hasn't given me permission, but he said, “I don't understand people that don't make mistakes. If you're not making mistakes, you're not winning, you're not learning, you're not growing.”

 

And I agree with that, too, the differences when I was investing, I invested small and I made a bunch of mistakes small and then, as I've gotten more clever, if you will, I've gotten bigger. And so, I've had more and more breakthroughs in my investing and mainly, the reason I'm winning more in investing is the same reason we talked about running in our entrepreneurship is I'm choosing better principles, I'm investing in better products, and I'm investing in people that have kind of like a track history, a track record of winning. And those components are leading me now to have enough success investing that I'm making up for some of the mistakes I made early. So, yeah, and then, I think sticking to what I know which is real estate. So, the part where I've very rarely lost, I have lost, but I've not very frequently is real estate and so I've been able to build a pretty large real estate portfolio.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, that's fantastic. And it's not easy when you dealt a hand, where you lose some money because you've got to psychologically get past that. And there's still risk you could lose more, but I like that you talked about smaller investments at first, kind of learning the way. I'm a big fan of modeling. I like taking approaches, other people have had countless years of success with and then, just kind of implementing what they do.

 

Sometimes, people say, “Hey, how do you figure all this stuff out?” I just tell them, “I'm the biggest copycat out there.” I've copied you on a bunch of stuff, David, and I just learned from people that are smarter than me and wherever their area of expertise is and you have consistently performed really well in single-family homes in general. I'd love to know, even inside of that real estate asset class, some of why you like it so much. Why did that become your specialty? And how did you master that?

 

David Osborn: Well, I’m a big modeler, too. First off, I want to say that I was lucky enough to be mentored by Gary Keller early. He's probably a billionaire today. And I remember jokingly, the guys in Dallas, where I was buying franchises in the Keller Williams system, would call me little Keller. That was my nickname because I go sit in his class, suck everything up he said and then, I'd go repeat it like a copy machine, almost like a parrot, I was just repeating what I heard.

 

And I remembered I recruited this guy early on when I was like, 28, 29, and he said to me, “Man, when I first met you, I thought I'd never met a wiser 28 or 29-year-old.” And then, I went to Gary Keller's class. And I realized that everything you were saying was what Gary Keller taught you, who's 10 years older than me. And that's like modeling. And triangulating is another big thing for me, like if I find a deal, like I've got an oil and gas deal, we're both looking at it. And what I do is I find other guys in the oil and gas field and I asked their opinion and I kind of triangulate all that data and I use my own intuition to kind of make a judgement.

 

So, yeah, we both follow the same rules. Look, there's a script for success out there and if you follow it, and I talked about not being the sports guy with the accountability, but everyone that’s successful kind of follows the same script. It may not be the exact same, but we're all speaking the same language, accountability, setting goals, holding yourself accountable to the goals, being around great talent, hiring great people. So, even though we come from different places, that's why I think successful people when they get in a room, there's like a, “Oh, I found my family.” And the reason they found the family is because they've gone through the same pain points to get to where they are. I’m sure, like the same way rock and rollers relate to each other or movie actors relate to one another, but business people have that same commonality. What was your question again?

 

Justin Donald: Well, I think you answered it great, I mean, that's perfect. One of the things that I was really wanting to get to is, why single-family home rentals and why single-family homes in general? Why is that the area that you decided to specialize in? And you're great at it, but why that? It could have been tons of other real estate asset classes.

 

David Osborn: Well, for sure, like I started in residential real estate in a practice. I live in Austin, Texas. My first foray was in the single-family rentals and I've been doing it for years, like before all the big guys came in in 2013-ish, ‘12-ish, Blackstone and all those guys, I mean, I transacted 500 or 600 or 700, maybe more single-family homes, like as flips or as buy-and-holds, like in and out. In hindsight, I should have held war, but I'm a big fan of Warren Buffett. I know you're a big Warren Buffett student, too.

 

And Warren Buffett's rule number one is don't lose capital and rule number two is see rule number one. His rule number three is kind of find a business that has a moat around it, which I don't do, but the fourth one is kind of like create cash-flowing assets. So, those are some of his rules of investing. Well, it's very hard to lose money in single-family homes, especially if you know what you're doing, like can you lose money? Absolutely. Usually, if you have to sell too fast or if you're overdeveloped, if you're bad luck enough to be in a bad socioeconomically declining area, which there's not a lot of in America, but there are some.

 

So, number one, I'm not going to lose money in single-family, number two, see rule number one. I know the space, I know how to buy at a discount. And then, rule number three is a moat, I don't really have a moat, but single-family isn't easy. Like multifamily, there's a million competitors, there's so many apartment complexes, institutions own 55% or 60% of market. So, there is no moat in that space other than price. Single-family is a little more complex. It's not gotten to that level yet, as multifamily, so there are more opportunities. It's not as complete a market, I guess, what's that word? It's like, when a market is fully efficient, it's not as efficient market. So, there's opportunities inside of it.

 

And the other thing about it is even if you make a little bit of a mistake, if you buy and rent out a property, in the long run, your tenant’s short of like mold issue or some kind of the house falling down. Your tenants eventually cover your mistakes because if you buy right, which I usually do, I never buy negative cash-flowing single-family. So, I'm always buying positive cash-flow single-family. There's a whole other strategy around A properties that's more of a growth strategy, but I'm basically a value guy. So, I'm buying the rental property that needs a workforce housing person, he's going to rent it forever. And if I make a mistake in price, but I hold it 10 years, 10 years, most house prices are almost double, they might go up 50%. Any mistake I've made, a 15% or 20% is going to get covered.

 

The other thing about single-family that I love is they're scattered. So, I did multifamily once, where we had a couple of murders in it, like I was an investor and like a lot of problems. And we had to sell it and we lost all our equities, it was $800,000 loss. But in single family, if I had 800,000 single-family, I'd probably have 50 houses spread out all over the world, one of them can burn down and my rental income from all my others would pay for that in two weeks.

 

So, there's just a lot of like economies, there's inefficiencies. It's not as beautiful and sexy as multifamily because you don't have 400 feet places in one location, where you can have a giant team running it, but at the same time my 400 diverse, they're spread all over the place. There's a pretty good resiliency to it. I really love that. And I think also, Justin, that when I was growing up in real estate, there were a million experts in industrial and retail and there weren't many in single-family. It's a new asset class and I was as advanced as anybody. So, I poured, put the pedal to the gas on what I know, I understand the inefficiencies of it, but I think it's got a lot of runway, a lot of room to run, I mean, the institutions only own 3% or 4% of single-family rentals and they own 55% of multifamily.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I'm such a huge fan of cash-flowing investments like you. I don't buy for appreciation, I buy for cash flow. And then, I'm also trying to target in markets, where it should appreciate, but you're right, I mean, one of the reasons I like single-family home, rentals as well and I even put this in my book, it's because it's such a new asset class. It's the newest real estate asset class. It didn't even exist 15 years ago as an actual asset class.

 

David Osborn: Ten years ago.

 

Justin Donald: Ten years, yeah, I mean, it's just unbelievable. So, it's really a unique niche market that exists that has not been exploited yet by institutional money.

 

David Osborn: Yeah, that’s right, I mean, they're coming in and they're trying to figure it out and they've done well, but they definitely haven't mastered it yet. There's a lot of nuances in single-family that they've still got to work on. So, we can beat them. That's what's cool is we can beat the institutions on performance, fingers crossed, and we can outpay the retail guys and maybe saddle a little bit when the institutions came in because I know a lot of people are wealthy from single-family and I knew it was going to get more competitive and, therefore, harder for the smaller operators who need a bigger margin to survive, but it also creates a unique niche, where we could get better cap rates than the big guys who are just buying blind, basically, they're buying right off the MLS, but we can also pay more than the retail investors who need to make a bigger spread, so that puts us in the middle.

 

I've had most of my success in life by being the middle guy, not the biggest, not the smallest, I can outplay the small guys and I can undercut, be below this eyesight of the big guys, and we're in that space, again, in single-family. And like you said earlier, it's a cash-flowing investment. My first fund will pay out, say 5% to 8% of years of the investors, it has a built-in appreciation. I'm never going to make you like a high-tech fund. It's not going to be 20-plus-percent returns, but it'll be in the low to mid-teens, hopefully and definitely not lose money. I mean, the risk of loss of money short of a cataclysmic event is almost zero. And that's all about the asset class, yeah.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, that's right. As long as you're using leverage wisely, it'd be really hard to lose money. And then, additionally, here's the other layer that I don't know if a lot of people think about, but with one of the companies that I'm an owner in and you know about this, this company is, if you look at this being such a new asset class that you're not really competing against the institutions in terms of the actual assets, the actual properties, you're also not competing with these institutions in terms of technology either.

 

So, one of our companies were able to build this proprietary tech platform to be able to help scale the business in a way that none of these institutions have. And the ones that, I mean, there's really only one major group that has some automated, proprietary software that allows them to scale. And the functionality just isn't even as good as what we're able to build. And so, you've got that advantage to being a newer asset class.

 

David Osborn: Yeah, you guys have such a great niche with that company you guys created together and you guys do great, you have a great reputation. And so, it's definitely a new playing field and it's super fun and, yeah, it's exciting what the future is going to hold. And I think what happens is the institutions get better and better and better at it, by then the more footprint we've accumulated, the better the exit price. So, if they start getting an appetite for this, we're bidding on a multifamily at the moment that's like 350 doors. There's a pretty big 40-plus-million-dollar deal. There's us and an institution bidding. So, we're already against an institution and multifamily, you're almost always against an institution, which almost always means they have more money than you. But in the single-family space, that isn't the case, but as we scale up and they get more and more active, I believe our exit will be to the institutions and we'll probably get paid more than we would pay for the same asset class because the institutions are just yield hungry, they're looking for money, cash flow.

 

Justin Donald: That's awesome. And I know you had a major victory within the last year. And I'm not sure if you want to talk about this, but I'd love to invite you to celebrate your big victory of kind of scoring your biggest deal for the fund. Do you mind elaborating on that? I’m being vague intentionally.

 

David Osborn: No, I don't mind at all. You talk about the money?

 

Justin Donald: Yeah.

 

David Osborn: We spent a lot of effort getting an insurance company to loan us money instead of a bank. It was a very comprehensive process and we got to borrow $50 million from one source for our single-family fund at 4.5% interest only. This was about a year ago. So, the rates are down from there, but still, it's a great facility, a great rate. It's not government-backed, so they don't have the eviction moratorium that people have. Not that we're predatory, we're not out there trying to kick people out of their homes, we're super educational and supportive and trying to educate people. We do let them know that we're not a government-backed loan, so we actually can’t evict you. So, here's all the people you can go to help with your rent and we'll work with you. And so, yeah, that was a very sophisticated process we had to go through.

 

And fortunately, I have a couple MBAs that work for me that are very bright. One in particular in this case could speak the language of, I couldn't have done it, going back to what I said, I'm the C student, not the A student, but I could hire the A students. And this kid is amazingly intelligent and he was able to communicate with the insurance company, the reinsurance company, and they loaned us that money. So, yeah, that was super fun and we've now deployed almost all of that money.

 

Justin Donald: Congratulations, I know that’s a huge victory. And it's nice when you can go to one place for that money.

 

David Osborn: It's so nice.

 

Justin Donald: Ten different places, I mean, wow.

 

David Osborn: It's also a new relationship. So you get leveled up in life and everyone knows about leveling up, everyone talks about it, but leveling up in this space means we now have that group coming to us because we've done such a good job of handling them, saying, “Hey, we got more money. What would you like to deploy next?” Now, by the way, their minimum check size is usually 100 million dollars. They came down for us to 50, they'll do 50 million, obviously, we're not special, but it's like what they give to people that they think will scale up, so that the next check can be 100 million. Does that make sense?

 

So, we now have a massive money source that really gets it non-recourse, no personal guarantees, we don't have to go through all that junk, and they're eager to loan us money if we find a deal. Now, the hard part right now is finding deals that I can live with because I'm a value guy, not a growth guy. And a lot of people are buying based on growth. And so far, the growth guys have been geniuses and it's all worked out.

 

I remember talking to a guy in 2014, that was buying a bunch of multifamily based on growth. And I was like, “Man, if the economy turns against you, you're screwed.” Four years later, he sold it, made 40 million bucks, and it's been great for him. So, I've been wrong so far. But ultimately, I need a margin of safety in things I do. So, we've got the money source, we're at the next level. And the other thing about the money sources, we can also go to other high of the same kind of insurance company and say, “Hey, we've done it with them. Would you like to compete for our business?”

 

So, right now, you go to two banks and say, I have 20 single-family homes. I want to get a rate quote between you. Well, we're not doing that at people that loan 50 and 100 million. So, yes, all the effort was worth it. And it's another example of leveling up and it's another example of hiring great people. As I said earlier and you mentioned it, I've done a great job of building businesses with really talented people. And I couldn't do with this what my CIO, Chief Investment Officer, does in this organization. He's my CEO now as well of that organization. I couldn't do what he does. I would have not been able to get this funny, but I can hire the guy get out of his way, have enough awareness to sort of tune into what's going on, come to the meetings, and let him run the traps and run the process to get that 50 million across the finish line.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, and that's exactly what I was talking about before, where you have built systems in your organization that removed you, but allow you to scale in a way that you couldn't have scaled without you. And so, that's how you know you hired well, and kudos to you. That's awesome. I've got a two-part question for you. I'm curious, what first made you want to become an investor? And then, the second part to that is, how have your investments shifted your investment theory, your investment strategy, your actual investments, however, you want to look at it? How has that shifted from when you were a new investor to where you are today?

 

David Osborn: So, that's a great question. I'm building my entrepreneurial businesses with Keller Williams mostly, I mean, I had an insurance company and some other feeder businesses, but I'm basically building Keller Williams franchises. But I also was a big student of Robert Kiyosaki, the Cashflow Quadrant. So, you got the employee, the self-employed, the business owner, and the investor. The investor is the quadrant you want to get to. That's the Warren Buffett quadrant, that's where Bill Gates is now. That's basically where everyone ends up as an investor, maybe not Elan Musk because he's still doing, but most people end up as the dream.

 

The dream goal of a business person is to be, I got a bunch of capital, let me intelligently figure out where to put it. So that's the goal. So, I always had that in the back of my mind, kept building my franchises fully in the business owner, the B category and then, they started creating cash flow. And I always knew in my mind, I would become an investor. So, I’d started building a real estate portfolio as well, love the rent checks. They're not the size of my business ownership checks, but they don't take any time either. I take the time to analyze, underwrite, buy the asset, put a tenant in, and then it runs itself almost, not completely, but almost.

 

And then, it was 2013 and I was making a bunch of money, so I had plenty. And I kind of was like, “Well, maybe, I should start investing in other things on a more conscious basis.” I happen to also join Tiger 21 then, which is an investment group for high-net-worth investors and I start seeing a ton of deal flow. And early on, I made a bunch of bad investments, like I described you. I'd invest in the kid who brought me some idea because he was a hardworking tech guy from UT. I'd invest in like a juice place because I love juice for my own health. So, I was like, “Oh, surely, a daily juice kind of a concept is going to make a bunch of money.” And I threw money at that. But these were all small investments and a lot of them did badly.

 

And then, as I started ascending the food chain, like, I really was kind of bored, Justin, of one plus one equal two and a quarter. And I kind of wanted to see if I could make one plus one equal 10. Like, could I invest in something and get a 10x. I learned that it's really hard. It takes a lot of due diligence and a lot of effort. It's like my business. A lot of people, the grass is always greener, they’re like, “Oh, I’ll start a real estate franchise.” And most people lose money in real estate, it's difficult, there's a lot of nuances.

 

And I found that out about investing in non-real estate assets as well, but I didn't quit, I mean, it's fun for me, like we talked about earlier that the status quo is boring. So, I'm kind of transformative and trying to look for new things, made one really big bad investment that's probably going to cost me 2 million bucks, but in that process, I was like, Okay, so the pain of loss teaches you like, I would analyze what went right, what didn't go right, and I really have come down to my new rules for investing, which is invest in the right people that have got a track record, that have had exits before, make sure your co-investors have deep pockets.

 

A great concept could start in Lubbock, Texas and it would be beat by the guys starting one in Silicon Valley, not because it's better in Silicon Valley, but they have the relationships and they have the access to Andreessen Horowitz and all the big investment as Silverlake and the tech firms out there. And so, that's kind of paid off for me. And now, I've got one that's up 8x, I've got one that’s got 375 and that's worth 2 million already and it's probably going to double a couple more times. I wouldn't be surprised if that became 6 million. And I've just kind of narrowed it down.

 

But why? I mean, it's just part of the game and it's part of evolution. And I don't want your listeners to hear this and say they should jump about, because early on, you have to just grind. In my opinion, you have to grind out, like 10 years to build expertise and mastery in a space. So, you can really dominate that niche and make a bunch of money from it. And then, after that, it's like what else could I learn? What else could I learn?

 

And I'm really excited about where I'm at with my investing career now because I think I've made up for all my mistakes with my wins which is great. And now, I have a group of relationships, just like I have access to that hundred-million dollar, to that hot, big money guys in my real estate side. Now, in my investing side, I'm getting a better and better group of peers, group of people that shares stuff with and access to deal flow that's better and better. And it's just like anything in life, the more time you put into it, the better you get. I really think the 10-year rule is pretty accurate to get really good at something you need about 10 years on it. So, I'm about seven years into my investing career and the last two years have probably been my most fruitful investing years.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, I think that's great and I heard something. So, one of my favorite investors and thought leaders is Naval Ravikant and one of the things he said is that, I mean, I think many of us have heard of the book, The Tipping Point, Malcolm Gladwell, and I think that's maybe even where this whole idea of 10,000 hours or 10 years kind of came into play of becoming an expert in something where that tipping point happens, but Naval said, Hey, instead of 10,000 hours, just find a way to get 10,000 iterations. And those iterations can happen in a shorter timeframe than that 10 years. And so, I think someone that's really committed to their craft, they can get there faster if they have the ability to mirror and model.

 

David Osborn: I agree. I totally agree. I think it's also from Talent is Overrated, the 10-year concept, and also Peak Performance. But I agree, it's like what you put into those hours and one of the things is consciously practicing purposeful practice. And I think more consciousness, the more thought you put into those hours, the more advanced they are. You could just go aimlessly like pot on the putting surface and you're not really going to build the expertise as if you focused in and really paid attention to a consistent repetitive pattern.

 

So, yeah, if I believe you could accelerate that? Absolutely, there's no question. And you could also delay it, you could spend 20 years and still be dumber in a rock because you didn't really do it purposefully and consciously.

 

Justin Donald: That’s right.

 

David Osborn: So, generally, speaking, time on task leads to expertise. So, generally speaking, the more time you put in, the better you get.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, there's no doubt. And at the end of the day, every investor is going to lose money at some point in time. And the part of that is, you can't beat yourself up for losing the money because it's a done deal, but what you can do is you can learn the lesson. I've lost money before you've lost money, before anyone I know that's been an investor has lost money, but the difference between the people that don't make it and the people that do make it is that they choose to learn the lesson and then, implement that for all their future investments. And sometimes, you don't learn the lesson until you have money exposed.

 

David Osborn: Here's the sad truth about that, the pain of loss teaches you way more than the thrill of victory. So, in reality, the losses are better for you than the wins. Now, I mean, it's a dark truth because really, what I'm telling you is you should be running around in life trying to fail. And the more you try to fail, the farther you will go, but I don't know a single winner that has achieved at a high level in life that hasn't had a whole bunch of losses. And that's true, Michael Jordan as it is, Warren Buffett as it is, anyone, now Warren Buffett may be the exception, but generally speaking, I mean, look at Microsoft when they tried to compete with the iPhone, what was that thing? The Zune or something or like whatever, they put out something, it was better, faster, prettier, and it failed. So, that's just a small example of the millions of iterations you have to fail to get expertise at. And I think, I'm lucky that early on, I succeed because I’m sure, it's harder if you have an early fail, does that make sense?

 

Justin Donald: Yes.

 

David Osborn: So I'm lucky that Keller Williams was a success for me, but regardless, I think, my personality was such that I'd keep going at it. And I think your ability to tolerate risks and live with failure is very important in your journey as an entrepreneur and an investor.

 

Justin Donald: There's no doubt and when I think about it, I mean, the whole title of this podcast and of my book is The Lifestyle Investor and you don't have lifestyle overnight. It's a process of learning to invest. And even before investing, it may be just learning to get good at whatever your craft is to make money to be able to invest. But at a certain point, it's about making smart investments that cover your cost of living, that create the basis for how you live your life. And I know you've done this, I've seen your lifestyle, you've got an unbelievable lifestyle. You live in a great home that your wife did an amazing remodeling job to the home all herself, just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. One of my favorite homes to hang out in, as well as your cool back patio pool, that whole area that you guys redid. You've got fun toys, I mean, flying on your plane, your jet is just one of the nicest planes I've been in and it truly is a privilege to be able to have friends like you that have done the successful things that you've done. I'm curious, from a lifestyle standpoint, because you have it, you've built it, what’s your wealth and freedom mean to you, David?

 

David Osborn: So it's the old cliché which I love is being able to do what you want, when you want, with whom you want, how you want is definitely one of the benefits. The quality of my friendships is elevated tremendously since I've become a more accountable person, that doesn't mean money, people, I mean, some of the philanthropic people, I know Scott Harrison out of Charity: Water, the people over, can't remember his name at Community First, the guy that runs that, the guy that founded Community First for the homeless, the business people.

 

My peer network has grown as I've grown myself, the ability to do great things for other people and just contribute to others. We paid for multiple college degrees for multiple kids in Mexico. Now, we've got a strong interest in every year having at least one kid on our college scholarship program. There's just so many great things, being able to take care of my family, being able to take care of my daughter or my kids when they have issues, my mom when she's had issues, with my dad, hiring him a nurse when he was sick and dying of cancer, which was a gift of having capital and having money and like they say money problems are half of all problems and just all of those go away with financial success.

 

You still have a bunch of problems. I'm not saying there aren't no problems, there's relationship problems, there's other problems that show up, but ultimately, you've eliminated at least half of the problems. Unless you're mentally like overly attached to the money which I sometimes see with wealthy people, where they're really like tight and their freaky about it, but from where I sit, I think money has been amazing. And it's something I wanted for freedom and it's just been a real gift.

 

Now, that said, so whoever said money can't buy you happiness never had a lot of money, but actually, it doesn't really buy you happiness, but it increases, I think, your sense of well-being. So, yeah, it's been a real gift and I'm glad of the journey, Oh, and now keep in mind that I had to armor up pretty hard to make all this money. I'm not saying that everyone has to, I just chose to or whatever my life path led me down that way of, because when you're in business, it is a little bit like economic war, a little bit, like in other words, I'm trying to recruit an agent, but so is Cole Banker, so is RE/MAX, so everyone else is.

 

There's a lot of stuff that goes on, people want to buy the franchise, I may want to buy their stuff, but in spite of that, the costs I pay, there are definitely prices I paid, but the benefits have been huge. I mean, getting to know you writing books, the guy's into what? Tiger 21 that I enjoy so much, it's a pretty good environment to be in. So, I'm very happy with it. And I do completely agree with your philosophy, like your number one goal should be to have cash flow coming in from your investments that meet all your needs.

 

And even if your needs are 100 grand a year and you've got 100 grand passive, like I met a guy the other day, he just exited a business, he got 8 million bucks. He's used to making 250,000 to 400,000 dollars a year. And I'm like, you should take that 8 million and invest that 5% and there's a way and you'll have 400 a year and you should still work, you're only 53 or 55 or whatever it is, but that's like rule number one, can I cover all my living expenses? And if you can from passive income, then you're like, at a whole new level of breathing and oxygen and freedom.

 

And I know a young guy that's 29 and he's got 120,000 a year coming in and he lives off 50. So, he's rich, he's richer than the guy that has 200 passive coming in but lives off 400 because the guy bringing in 200 passive, living off 400 is actually still stressed. He’s a guy 200 shortfall. And once you get that covered and I think if you can do that with investing, it actually should be your number one objective is to be financially free. We call it like the 100% or in my group, but can you be 100% or some of that, 100% of their needs are met by passive income? And everyone thinks, oh, then I quit, but you actually don't quit, you keep doing but you don't have that pressure of doing, so yeah.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, what happens is you experienced this liberating feeling where you now know you don't have to work, but now you get to work. You transition into, I get to spend time how I want to spend time, and it does create a lot of mental stimulation to be able to figure out what else it is that you want to do in your next chapter. And it truly is a next chapter which is really cool.

 

David Osborn: It's a game changer.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah. You mentioned something about having problems, that money's not going to solve all your problems. And I'm a huge fan of Tony Robbins, I've taken every program that he's ever done. I'm one of his senior leaders. And one of the things that I love about Tony, he says, “Everyone has problems, if you don't have problems, you're dead.” So, everyone has some form of problem.

 

The goal is to upgrade the quality of problems that you have and to consistently do that. And one of the problems that people have are financial problems, it is the greatest problem or greatest stressor in an average person's life, in a marriage, however you look at it. So, if you can solve the financial problem and have enough money, it makes solving all other problems so much more manageable and so much easier. There's no doubt.

 

David Osborn: Jim Rohn says the same thing. So, Jim Rohn says, “Don't ask for your problems to be easier, ask for you to be bigger, so that you can handle bigger problems.” And I was just remarking on this a couple days ago, like the level of problems I have today, the things I deal with, would have crushed me 20 years ago, like I wouldn't be able to handle them and most people I don't think could handle them now, whether it's Barack Obama, Donald Trump, George Bush, or Bill Clinton. The presidential problems would crush me, like if I suddenly had to deal with world peace and all those complexities of the universe that those guys, but if you're not trained up and built up your ability to handle bigger problems and you're putting the wrong environment, you'll get crushed which is why people think money will solve their problems, but if you give most people 20, 50 million bucks, many of them blow it, because they haven't built up that muscle to handle.

 

It sounds dumb, but it's not easy being extremely wealthy. There's a whole lot of complexity that comes with wealth that requires more than just like, Hey, I got a credit card, and it's unlimited. I can go spend money. There's businesses, there's people, there's relationships, there's investment choices, there's winning, there's losing, there's insurance, there's legal, there's lawsuits, there's like a lot of stuff. But for sure, if you can get yourself to be able to handle bigger problems and deal with them with a smile on your face, like things that used to keep me awake every night for a year, 20 years ago, I can get over them in like 24 hours today. Yeah, I'm mad for a little bit, I’ve gotten sued by this guy, it's a frivolous lawsuit, I hand it to the lawyers and I'm done. Good luck with that. Like there's always something going on. So, that is the skill set to develop. And Tony Robbins and Jim Rohn are both correct on that.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah. And Jim Rohn is the person Tony Robbins learned from, so I love both. I stalk all their info and knowledge up, you better believe it.

 

David Osborn: Amen.

 

Justin Donald: You had mentioned just a moment ago about your group and some of the things that you do to track success. And I'm a huge fan of your group, especially the people that are in the group, especially those that founded and run the group called GoBundance. I'd love for you to share with our listeners a little bit about what GoBundance is.

 

David Osborn: So, one of my main successes in life was because I have a good friend, Tim, Pat and Mike and we held each other accountable for 20 years, like for a long time. And what I meant by that is we were all ambitious and we would get together, we share our financial statements, we talk about our health, we talk about our wives and our relationships with our kids, and how we can do better at that. So, we were like a group of men sharpening one another, helping one another grow in strength through transparency.

 

And not easy, guys, I want to be clear, it wasn't like we were talking about the Dallas Cowboys or our favorite football team, it was like, “Hey, you're working too much. You're not spending enough time with your kids, you need to do better.” “Hey, you're 30 pounds overweight, you talk about health being important to you, but your body fats up to 28%. What are you going to do about it?” Like this kind of conversations and we've done it for years. And we were kind of getting sick of each other. We added an adventure vacations because we were like, let's not go to all these conferences, which we've done Tony Robbins and a million things that were great. We’re like, let's go kayak in Norway or let's go hike the Appalachian Trail.

 

And after doing it for probably like 16 or so years, we met a guy who's a Tony Robbins guy and he's like, you guys really have something here, you should invite more people into it because people need this kind of an environment and this kind of a thrive. And so, we opened it up, we went from the four of us to eight to 23 to 50. Now, we got 275 members and we created and formalized it around a tribe. And our tribe is built around six pillars, but the basic concept is, your peers are more important than anything. And what I mean by that is you can have coaches telling you all day long, you can have employees, you can be an island unto yourself where you're the most successful guy, which I mean a lot of and they're all limited, you limit yourself.

 

The way you really grow is by surrounding yourself with a peer group, where excellence and financial freedom is just normal because a lot of successful people are like, What's going on here? Like, why am I like here and no one else is? Like, who of your high school buddies make 1 out of 100 guys in America get financial freedom? So, it's unlikely that your closest friends are on the same journey you are. That's not taking anything away from them, it just means that if you want to learn, you got to be around people that are more advanced.

 

So, we created GoBundance as a tribe for healthy, wealthy, generous people to achieve more excellent lives and it's been great. And because one of the reasons I'm financially free is because my buddy, Pat Hiban, was and he invests in a lot of real estate. And I kept thinking, man, he's doing it, why can't I do it? You see Tony Robbins, you're like, well, that's fine for him, he's Tony Robbins, but when you see like Justin's looking at me like, oh my god, if David Osborn can do it, I must be able to do it twice as good because look at David, he's just a dorky, little dude or whatever, like there's this beautiful thing that comes from peership where you believe what's possible.

 

And then, the other thing we're into is a very wholesome life, so great fathers, great husbands or wives, great physical health, great financial health, bucket list adventures, and then genuine contribution, I think every person has to have a cause that they care about. That cause can change, but you have to find a way to give back to build a stronger community and a stronger world.

 

Justin Donald: That is incredibly eloquent. And I just love hearing about that. I love that you're passionate about bringing other people up. It's about surrounding yourself with people that are going to pull you up but then, you having accountability to also pull up and mentor other people in your circle of influence that are intentional, that want to get better and want to grow. I love all the dynamics of it and I love all the things you do and I've got tons of friends that are part of GoBundance and just swear by it.

 

David Osborn: And you're the same way, man, if we can all just help one another out and reach a hand down to another guy and lift him up and especially as I'm an older guy now. I used to be the youngest guy in my groups. Now, I’m the older guy, but you got to reach down to help people up. If we all do that, we're going to make this country a better place and make the world a better place. And that's what I think we owe our communities and our friends. And, yeah, I think it's very important. And I know you do the same thing, Justin.

 

Justin Donald: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I mean, there's something to be said about having impact and being able to help people better themselves and better their situation. I mean, to me, that is what life is about. So, I'm glad that we share that and have a passion towards that. Where can our listeners find you online?

 

David Osborn: Yeah, just go to davidosborn.com, that's my website, or @iamdavidosborn. If you want to read some of my wisdom, my favorite book that I wrote is Wealth Can't Wait, that was a New York Times bestseller. I've written four books or Tribe of Millionaires. But, yeah, you can find me there, you can email me or whatever, I'm always happy to help people. I'm not going to give out the email, they're going to have to figure that one out. But if they can find a way, we don't ever turn people away. We might only give you one bit of advice, but we don't turn people away. And we're happy to help in any way we can.

 

Justin Donald: That's cool. And what about GoBundance, if anyone wants to learn more about that?

 

David Osborn: So, you go to tribeofmillionaires.com and get a free book or you can just go to gobundance.com, we have an application process. We do have a net worth requirement, but you can go fill out the application at gobundance.com, G-O-B-U-N-D-A-N-C-E, GoBundance.

 

Justin Donald: That's awesome. And by the way, for the record, I have read Tribe of Millionaires, which I think is great because it's a story and the way that you wrap the core principles of the book up in the story is really ingenious. And then, your Wealth Can't wait, which was a number one bestseller, I think is one of the best finance books out there. And I absolutely love that as well. So, I'm a huge fan, I'm a friend, but I'm also a huge fan of David Osborn.

 

David Osborn: Thank you, Justin.

 

Justin Donald: Cool. Well, thank you so much for spending time with us. And really, do you have any last thoughts that you want to share with our listeners?

 

David Osborn: I think there's nothing better than what you're doing, Justin, right here. And if all of our listeners, your listeners here today would just be purposeful, go out and set goals, start choosing your destiny, and then allow that choice to shape you, meaning that you don't quit, you stay resilient, you get knocked around and kicked around, and the unnecessary parts of yourself kind of fall away, like gold being purified by fire, if you'll let that happen to you, you'll be in for the most amazing journey in life.

 

And I think you know that, you're on that journey, you're trying to help people, I'm on that journey. And if you can get financially free, then there's nothing better. So, that's my final words. Just keep on doing what you're doing.

 

Justin Donald: I love it. And as I like to close out my other episodes, just take one step forward, take some form of action. It can be a small form of action, but just do something better than what you did yesterday to put yourself in a better position than where you were in the past. So, thanks for listening. And, David, I really appreciate you joining us. I had a ton of fun.

 

David Osborn: Great time with you. Thanks, Justin.

[END]